Dealing with the Toughest B2B Customers

0:03 Thank you for joining us on the Winning and Selling Podcast. I'm Professor Scott Plum of the Minnesota Sales Institute and with me is Bill Hellkamp of Reach Development Systems. Well, we've all had to deal with them. The sales process is going along fine until the prospects true colors come out and you have a problem personality to contend with. Perhaps it's the person who won't make a decision or the guy who's trying to prove how smart he is or the woman who must have the best deal in all the world.

0:32 So what do you do? Of course you listen in. Scott and I struggle to deal with the toughest B2B customers and other concerning considerations on episode 631 of the Winning and Selling Podcast. I'm really looking forward to that topic. What's the saying that you usually have about a customer being confused? I remember you saying that a couple times. Oh a confused customer is a customer who waits. So yeah, yeah, they're not a buying customer. Right.

1:07 Yeah, and looking forward to getting into the different types of personalities that we deal with those problem personalities and some of the concerning considerations. But before we do that, let's finish up the book. We have two more segments on the book. So it's they're going to be covering part six chapters 2930 and 31 and chapter 29 starts off with tap into triggers and she talks about triggering events like the shift in leadership or there's some financial announcements that are being printed in the paper online and there's some mergers and acquisitions or maybe there's new strategic initiative that they're promoting or sometimes there's legal compliance

1:50 that needs to be adapted and and all of the organizations that that we're you know we're calling on out there they need our products and services. I always think about the unemployment rate, you know, when it goes up to 7% 93% of people are working. There are qualified prospects that are out there and these triggered events, you know, act as a catalyst forcing these organizations to reevaluate how they're doing things.

2:15 I think a lot of people tend to avoid a company that's in transition, but a company that's in transition on one of these types of areas is looking for something new to do, looking for a way to to change things up. You know, new leadership comes in. They have to do things differently. Right. They can't do things the same way because that's why we got rid of the old leadership. Yeah. Yeah. So we've all got new helpers and new advice and new programs might be an opportunity for salesperson.

2:45 Well, you know, everything's shifting. I always, you know, I've been part of this on the on the employee side of a leadership or merger and acquisition and the OSCE. Oh, we're just going to keep doing the way of things that we're doing here. So don't worry. Don't shift. Don't change. Just keep coming to work every day and within six months, you get laid off or some of your team gets laid off and your workload increases. It seems to happen every single time.

3:08 Many years ago, I was at B Dalton. Yeah. And they had just been purchased by Barnes and Noble. And I remember writing an email to a friend of mine. This was like very early days of email, but I wrote a note saying we're all going to get fired because these guys aren't going to come in from New York City every weekend. And we were getting that same line. Oh, nothing's going to change us. And I said, there's no reason, you know, they would buy us and change nothing. What she's trying to make the point, right?

3:37 Just opportunity if you're looking for it. Right. Right. And she talked about getting Google alerts with some of your top prospects. Now you got to make a list of what your top prospects are and and, you know, watch the the triggers come in and you're being reactive to those Google triggers. I've got a few of them. But you also have to proactively start researching some of the websites once a month or doing some Google searches on your your top prospects and find out what's going on with them. So use those triggers. The next part of the the book is is she's talking about, you know, some great emails on how to position

4:12 some changes in a positive way. And I think once you go through and you kind of read some of these messages on shifts and companies and how a salesperson can can reposition that to be the advantage of, here's a great time to start a conversation. We can start to get them thinking about considering us when they are making those big changes. So that's that's another good opportunity.

4:36 Right. I mean, again, anytime there's change, you can't just say, Hey, I hear you fired your entire leadership staff once you talk to us. Yeah, I know you've got to find a nice way to say it. I've worked with a number of companies. You mentioned legal and compliant. Right. You know, when the laws change, there can be a quite an opportunity. And sometimes our Congress will make quite a big change. The Sarbanoxley act many years ago. I can remember affected every business and the way that they were doing business and everybody had to comply with it. And for attorneys and accountants and and other consultants, it made quite an opportunity.

5:18 Keep an eye on on what's happening in your legislature in your state or in our national Congress and see if those changes are something that you can learn about and become an expert at. So that you can help your clients. I know you don't like the word help, but you can guide your clients or be a resource for your clients in in navigating something new. Mm hmm. Yeah. And that's a great reputation to have about being proactive and calling on prospects when they need something. They have to do something and you're the one that's initiating it and and not causing them to have to worry about everything that goes on. Salesperson can be a great advisor for a business in that capacity.

5:58 And your product can be a good solution for them. Oh, they need it. I mean, they need it. That's right. And the company that's going to be the most assertive and proactive is going to be probably the one that's going to offer the best value in prospects mind. And that's that's the goal. Chapter 30 is develop time saving systems. And I really liked how she talks about creating a method message, personalization, and then a sequence and and doing this. It's a little bit more methodical than just touching base or checking in. That's not an appropriate follow up plan.

6:29 I see in the last few chapters, I'm seeing a tremendous overlap from what we've been talking about in the four years that we've been doing this four and a half years we've been doing this and what she's writing in the book. And it's just great to see that alignment. I think we're on to something here. But she suggests that get to it like a eight to 10 part script or processed to make it more time efficient and and more effective in doing that.

6:54 And that's a lot of work upfront and doing it. And but it makes it a lot easier in the future to be able to apply it. So she talks about maybe a phone call and maybe a LinkedIn invite and an email and then another phone call and maybe a LinkedIn message. And then maybe another email and then LinkedIn and then finish up with a phone call. And I always like to finish up with a phone call after hitting them this many times and just say, you know, are you testing me to see how committed I am? Or are you no longer maybe in charge of this project?

7:22 And I notice that because I know you use that that verbiage and use that same verbiage. You want to have a later if you're not the right person, let me know who is the right person. Right. Right. And I always like to be a little bit more assertive or threatening saying, if you're no longer in charge of this, I'll find out who is. So you're you're mean like me. So she's very kind. The goal is to get a response. And some people say, if they would just call me back, I said, okay, well, you know, call them and tell them their house is burning down.

7:50 They'll call you back, but you don't need to be, you know, creating an alarm and doing that. But that's it. That's the goal. You know, we have to figure out a way to do it assertively without upsetting them to but to get a call back and see. But and then, you know, she also talks about the importance of referral. I'm really glad that she brought this up and people are more comfortable following up on talking to a salesperson that's referred to them. Somebody else has worked with them in the past and they had a good experience.

8:16 So most likely that'll be the same thing with any new prospect that they have. So I really like that referral always ask for a referral. Even if they don't buy, you can always ask for a referral. Chapter 31 is unclog your pipeline. And this is out of the book. The last thing you want to do is waste your precious time on prospects who aren't going to close. And she brought up some very good points in here. And I really love the parts about why deals get stuck.

8:41 It's about, you know, they don't see enough value. I mean, you didn't paint a picture in the future that they can step into. They can see themselves in where that there's going to be some value and some advantages to buying from you. So that's number one. We just had, we just had this conversation with clients when we were doing our training last week or the week before last. And it was the same sort of thing. How much, how much material do you have sitting in your pipeline that is dead and just hasn't been buried yet? And you think you got something or it's keeping up mind space?

9:13 I really like this chapter on unclogging your pipeline. So much junk out there. And your boss says, what did one of our, what did we hear that? Was it our last conversation? Yeah, Christy Jones. Christy Jones said, yeah, it's not a pipeline. It's not a step of the sale. Yeah. Yeah, that was a great light. That's so true. And it's just like, what are then she was like, I was misrepresented on their pipeline and half of its all stalls and there's nothing there.

9:43 And it's all junk. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Number two is more important priorities. I was talking to a friend of mine, Frank Gustafson, he's down in Dallas, Fort Worth area yesterday. And he said he's just amazed how often he can get to the sea level. And and they're they're really, you know, upfront with them. And they say, look, we really believe that it's important about what you're talking about. But we've got 26 other priorities that have a higher priority for us.

10:09 So they're pretty much saying, you know, we're just going to let it burn right now and we'll get back to it later. If we've got 26 priorities, we have no priorities. No priorities. But there's Oh, we talked about salespeople, right? Yeah, exactly. What are the three to five important things you should be doing every day? Not the 20 different things you should be doing every day. Right. Right. Three to five. Get those done.

10:32 And then everything else should start to fall in line. Yeah. Yeah. So we're competing with priorities. We just need to make our proposal, our solution, a high priority for our prospect. Number three is we're talking to the wrong person. The corporate executive board who I think put out the book, The Challenger Cell, I think they're behind that. They said that on average, there's 5.4 people that are involved in every decision.

10:56 How many times are we just talking to one person? And all of a sudden they control all of the information that's going into an organization. I mean, look at the projects that we've worked on together, Bill. There's always two or three people involved in the decision implementing and rolling out the program. And everybody buys in, everybody contributes. And then we adapt our material to appease more than one goal, more than one person.

11:19 And that offers more value to the company. Consequently, we generate more revenue by offering a program that offers more value. Well, we love it when we get to talk to the team. Because those team, they're either going to have an input with us there or they're going to have an input without us there. Yeah. Even if it's difficult, then we're going to talk about difficult personalities. And you and I have dealt with them.

11:40 Even if we have to deal with a difficult person, I'd rather know what we're dealing with than someone who's behind the scenes going, I don't like these guys. I don't think they're doing a good job. I don't know. I can't do that. I need to have that open and then I can I can address it. Sometimes I don't address it well. Sometimes we can't reach an understanding, but at least I have a chance. So when you're only dealing with one person, all you're dealing with is a clogged pipe.

12:06 Right. Right. And they control your success. And sometimes not everybody sees the value of what you're offering. Other people need to be involved. Yep. Number four is misjudged interest. And this is kind of a two way street. Sometimes the salespeople get led up by the prospect and the prospects leading a sales person on and the salesperson loves to give free consulting. I mean, we were on a call the other day and I kind of spilled all my candy in the lobby and just told them everything that I can do or we can do.

12:34 And and it's like, you know, we got to figure out when we're going to stop. I'm giving the free consulting and start selling. So I was guilty of that, but I was excited to share all of the opportunities. Or sometimes the, you know, the prospect is misleading us too, the salespeople and and pre-judging it or sometimes we can pre-judge it too. So misjudged interest on both sides of it. Last one is no reason. There's just no reason for them to proceed.

13:00 So we need to be able to add a fresh perspective, maybe present some additional ideas, insight, information that that we can share to them that, you know, gives them a different perspective. And that's one of the benefits that you and I offer when we work with a company as we come from the outside, we come from years and years and years of experience and being down a road that other people have not traveled down. And we've been down that road a hundred times.

13:21 Right. So we come up with a very fresh perspective. There's another one of blind spots, you know, what might they not be thinking of that they should be considering and having that for us perspective, will help avoid some of the blind spots that they don't see. And then the last one is, you know, the hot topics. Are there any recent trigger events that that occurring within the organization outside the organization or the industry that can impact their decisions?

13:48 And like I said earlier, sometimes the legal compliance is a hot topic. And those are, you know, some of the reasons why deals get stuck. So think about your stalled step in the sales process and figure out how to install them. And I think the easiest thing sometimes is to just flush them and find somebody that will buy from me because like how we started the show up at a market, throw them over the market. Yeah, exactly.

14:08 The trickle campaign and see what happens. Yeah. All over six months and see if anything's moved. Right. So next week we're going to finish the book, more sales less time with Chocanrath. We're going to be covering part six chapters 32 through 35. And our new book, starting in a few weeks, is new sales simplified by Mike Weinberg. That'll be starting after our next guest. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. All right.

14:34 Well, for another fresh perspective on selling, let's listen to the sales tip from Anthony. Enjoy and learn from the sales tip from Anthony by Anthony and Reno, a highly

14:45 respected international speaker, best selling author, entrepreneur and sales leader. Hey, it's Anthony and Reno. This one really bothers me. It makes me really unhappy. And I want people to start paying attention to what I'm saying here because in the future, there's going to be fewer salespeople and it's only going to be the ones that are particularly effective and I need you to do something. You need to do the reading and you need to do the research.

15:15 So when you get a meeting, you read everything you can about that client. You learn everything you can about. The people that you believe are going to be in a meeting with you. And then you have to start doing research around the industry. So you don't want to walk in and say, Hey, tell me about your problem. And then I have to say, Jimmy, how could you not know the problems that you solve? You don't solve very many things.

15:40 And I will tell you what I usually teach people with. I tease them with this. Your client sits down. You ask them what's her problem. And they say, I'm really not happy with our coffee filters and we don't have enough room in our parking lot. That's not what you're there for. You already know what kind of problems your clients have. You should do all the research so that you know the headwinds and every single and the industry that you call in.

16:07 And you should be better prepared for this conversation than your client is. And you should be able to get their attention by talking about things that they wouldn't expect you to know. So if you can do this, you will be in a much better place as a salesperson. You will also do a lot to improve your effectiveness. And if you can get rid of that nasty legacy approach, you'll do a whole lot better. See me at the sales blog.com or come out and say hello at LinkedIn.

16:39 See you soon. Well, it's really emphasizing here, Scott, that we need to do a little pre-approach before we go in and go into a meeting and say, so tell me what's going on here. Yeah, exactly. Tell me what the problem is. Right. If you don't know the problems you solve, you're in trouble. I did that one time and I was asked to leave. So I've learned cases.

17:04 Yeah. Yeah. Here's your hat. I have a bit. And we really do need to do that. And that was a time where I was just getting a little overwhelmed and was not grounded with my communications with my prospects. I felt very bad about that bad lesson. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's true. Well, listen, I'm excited about this topic, dealing with the toughest B2B customers. And I do a couple of different things on dealing with different personalities in my in training, but I haven't really approached this one before.

17:35 So I wanted to do a little research on this. And I think as salespeople, we really need to be a droid in dealing with all different kinds of people. We don't get to pick and choose who our customers are going to be. And it's nice. We quite often, most of the time, Scott, we meet thoughtful, concerned people. We develop a good working relationship with them. We have fun and we solve problems and and and guide them into a new areas that they're not really knowledgeable about.

18:04 But once in a while, we run into someone who we just can't see eye to eye with. And in these cases, we have to be on our best behavior. Yeah. And we have to work to deal with them positively, despite any kind of disagreements we have with them. So so let's talk about some personality types. I've got six of them. Maybe you have another one or two that come to mind for you, but so we can add those as we go. But I want to talk about how you recognize these people and then how you deal with them.

18:32 And obviously your input is important in this. Yeah. Yeah. The first one I call the deal shopper. I mentioned that in the intro, right? Yeah. So this is how you recognize them. They're always bringing up the competitors pricing and it's always better than yours because they won't bring it up if it's higher than yours. So right, right. They're just going to bring it. Oh, yeah. Well, I could get this for a penny less or whatever.

18:53 Blah, but they don't give the whole picture. They don't say I could get this for penny less, but the quality sucks. I could get this for less, but I really don't want it. I want you. They always want to discount or they want something thrown in.

19:07 I negotiate that way. I'll see if they'll throw something in. I'll I'll ask for a discount. See what happens. Um, they, but these people need to win the negotiation. They need to be given something to feel like they got something to win it. Right. Right. Right. So go ahead. I'm always puzzled when they say it's a lower price and I say, well, I'm kind of curious. Why didn't you buy it? Well, it wasn't in stock. Oh, OK.

19:33 So the low price, nothing available. But they don't have it. So now what are you going to do? It's free, but they don't have it. Yeah. So so some ways I thought to deal with it. Do better discovery. You need to uncover buying motives, not just the statistics. And I find this happens a lot. We get really good at the basic questions, how many, how often, you know, but we don't get into the questions about why do you want to buy?

19:58 Why, why are you looking to do something now and what's the challenges? We don't get into motives. We need to get into facts and figures. And pricing is one of those motives. But we need as salespeople to illuminate the other values as well and keep going back to what they said was important for them. So when they ask for a discount, what I do is I say, well, tell me which of the things you value you want taken out of the deal.

20:27 So can I get this for 10% less? I say, yeah, let me see what I can take out that's going to cost about 10% of the total. Oh, no, no, I don't want to take anything out. Oh, you want the full value at a lower price. I can't, and I say this to him. I can't do that. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I can't stay in business if I continue to give you all my value, but you want to pay half price for it. And they look at me stunned like no one's ever told them that before because no one has.

20:55 Right. Right. I remember I was doing a, I was doing a workshop with a, with some people we had worked on asking questions and then kind of how do you sell them once you know, they're motives. And the first thing that guy out of the guy's mouth was if you make a decision today, I can give you a 5% discount. Jeez. It's like, wow, well, what do I need to do to get a 10% discount? So anyway, what your thoughts on the deal shop?

21:17 Yeah, I totally agree. And I think that they just want to be able to test the boundaries and to see if there's a cheaper price available. And I think in doing that, they've eliminated the other options so they can feel 100% confident that they're making the right decision and they're getting a full value because the value is being attacked and it's not being discount through the price. Right. Right. And I'm a cheap guy, but even a cheap guy like me understands value.

21:43 Mm. Right. I want the better quality. I want something that's going to last, but, but I will ask for a discount. And if they give it to me, heck, I got the better quality at a discount. They get into the hog. So anyway, well, I think there's an underlying theme on both sides of the argument or the conversation is to be fair. And I think if both people are fair, everybody's going to be happy and at the end. And that's what I think that's that happens if we deal with fair people, but some people don't think fairly.

22:13 That's true. We'll get to what we're talking about with the deal shopper. They have to win or they're frustrated. All right. Number two, the hesitant buyer. This is the person that can't make a decision, even if it's obvious to everyone else in the room. They all we want more information, more proof, more convincing. I got to get to the 90% decision level. Of course, nothing's ever the 90% decision level. You know, a baseball player to them is only good if he's hitting, you know, nine 20, nobody does, right?

22:40 That's true. I think I read somewhere that if if I could make decisions, right, 51% of the time, I'd just go on Wall Street and invest my money and get that that one percent would be enough for me to be wealthy. So so we're not going to get to that. So how do we deal with somebody who has to have so much information and can't make a decision? Well, I had a couple of ways to do it. First, you got to create a sense of urgency.

23:03 And one way to do it is to put a time limit on the opportunity, something like, hey, price changes are going to go to effect in September. So you need to make that decision in August or we're, you know, the prices are going to go up, right? Or you're indicating that there might be some change. Another one is to show them how and this is something you like to do, show them that no decision is actually a decision and they have to see what they're missing by not doing something.

23:29 Right. So if you don't make this decision, here's what's going to happen. Right. Right. And another part of doing that is, you know, hesitant buyer just saying, oh, look, the offer is going to be off the table tomorrow. And that's it. And you can hesitate and you can lose it or they have to be able to find out where their boundary is and how much they can get away with and risk. And then you call their shot on them and it's like, OK, I mean, if it's too much, how much too much?

23:59 That's what I would like to say, you know, oh, that your price is too high. How high too high? If it's too much, how much too much? Is it said $5? Is it $50? Is it $500? Is that difference worth it? Can you find enough value in it and risk to go? The risk is low. The value is high. Make a decision instead of has it. Now, cool. All right. Number three, the angry client. This one's pretty easy to recognize. They're mad about everything.

24:23 They might bring up politics, the world situation, the weather. They're mostly mad because your product, your pricing, your warranty, your service, whatever it is, doesn't meet their high standards and usually impossibly high standards. So it doesn't matter what happens. They're going to get mad about it. And I couldn't help but have something go through my mind. Audience are good listeners know this. Dale Carnegie started popping to my mind on all of these people.

24:53 I bet. But this one in particular, Dale Carnegie says the only way to get the best of an argument is to avoid it. So what do we do when someone's angry and trying to get us to argue with them? Well, I think you listen to them and you let them bet. I always like to let them run out of gas on their own. The next one is a trick I learned from you. And that's the and. Yeah. Oh, you know, I hate this and that and I don't like this and so you just kind of kind of keep drawing it out of them with that.

25:22 But I think overall you want to be socratic. Don't try to tell them anything. Ask them how they think the problem should be solved. I use this in customer service. Yeah. It's somebody that's mad. I said, well, you tell me what you think a good solution would be. And quite often they'll come up with a solution that we can afford and we solve the problem. Right. Right. And it's their decision. It's what they found most valuable.

25:48 And they'll remember that as being a positive experience. Sometimes conflict can create a stronger relationship to. Almost always solving a customer problem. Yeah. Or anger issue. It hits you on to a better relationship. We had a client a few months ago that was a difficult person when we first met them. And then once we showed them what we could do, they were our biggest advocate. Yeah. So if we had if we had treated them as if we didn't like them or as if we were putting up with them, then they couldn't have become our advocate.

26:20 Right. Right. But we treated them with respect. We answered their questions. We dealt with their issues and then they became our advocate. And I think that's important. Yeah, it is. All right. Number four, the impatient customer. I know you've been waiting for this guy and you couldn't have. I wish it was first. Yeah, I know. Because you're any delay can set these people working me. That's right. When they complain, it's going to usually be time oriented.

26:45 You took 10 minutes to get back to me or they look at their watch and sigh all the time. Right. So you know that time is important to them and they're impatient and and they feel that they're more important than anything else you could do. Right. They're, oh, I know I'm your best customer. Why didn't you get back? Right. Yeah. So some ways to deal with it. Make sure that the team because you're not usually the only one working with them.

27:08 Everyone on the team knows that a quick response to this person is crucial. Even if that response is to just let them know, I heard you and I'm working on it. Yeah. Yeah. I think quite often when dealing with angry people or upset people, we're afraid to call them back and we delay and the delay makes it worse. Every study I've shown that said not only is it solving their problem, but solving it fast. That increases customer loyalty.

27:36 So make sure that your whole team knows, hey, if this person calls, get back to them really fast, even if it's just to listen to them, right? And then keep them in the loop. When there's orders missing or something's going to be late. Again, we've dealt with a number of clients, right? Lately that that have a back orders and we're advising them, have a Monday morning time period where you call everyone of those back orders and you let them know where things are because if they have to call you, now they're more upset.

28:07 Right. Right. If you're taking proactive action, it's better. Yeah. Who's watching the store? Where's the attention when somebody's buying something and the salespeople should be proactive on making sure that the salesperson knows what's going on with an order? Well, I think too, early in the sale, if this isn't a client, but if it's a prospect, we're proving, you know, it's like the dating. Right. If I'm not going to be good on the date, what's going to happen when we're married?

28:35 Right. Right. So, so if I'm not going to be good while we're doing the dancing here about whether you should be a customer, chances are I'm going to do less service when you are customer and I've moved on to somebody else. So, all right. Number five, the verbose prospect. This is the talker, right? They have a lengthy story to tell no matter what the issue they're going to get off track or in the subject area. They're going to drive you crazy because they're going to talk about stuff they care about and you just don't care about.

29:02 That's gotten I have a mutual friend that we really like the guy. Yeah. But but he's always talking the same thing every time we talk to him and it's like we just avoid talking to him. So, that'd be that guy. So, how do you how do you deal with a prospect that just won't stop talking? Well, you got to listen to them. Mm-hmm. Can't interrupt them. Do you know why? Because everybody interrupts them. Yeah. And they need it.

29:27 Right. Because they're verbose and they don't recognize that they're the problem. So this being interrupted happens to them all the time. So use questions to get them back on track. Um, if you have a meeting with them, always have a hard stop. Exactly. So Scott, I'm so glad we're able to get together. I got another call at 830. So I just want you to know. And if you set that up beforehand, then you can use that as an excuse to get back in the groove.

29:53 Right. So Scott, hey, that's a great story. But we only got five minutes before my next meeting. So let's talk about these two decisions we have yet to make in that five minutes. You got to keep them on track. Yeah. I was like to make an agenda saying, well, I got we got a half hour and say, you know, what are the top things that you want to make sure that we cover during this 30 minutes? Let's, you know, let's write them out.

30:14 What are the top three things? And then you focus on that. Then when they start getting distracted and wait a minute here, I don't think we have time to go down that road right now. Let's figure out what this is. If you do have more time and they start getting off road, make a note of some of the stuff that they talk about because that could be useful information, but you need to always go back to the three priorities of three topics that you want to cover during that time.

30:34 Yeah. Your agenda is always good. And we always have that in a meeting. Yeah. It keeps us on track as well because we get off track. It's got and I can be verbose if you listen to our podcast. All right. Number six, the smartest person in the room. How do you recognize? Well, they want to they're the first to chime in with an answer and they always look for an opportunity to prove how smart they are, right? And as a buyer, they like to lay traps for you.

31:01 They ask questions as a test and to see how you'll answer them. And they'll sometimes tell you that later. Oh, you passed my test. Yes. And you feel like such an idiot when, but, but they're the buyer. So sometimes if they're going to test you, you know, what, what's gotten, I say to people, and this is an advantage we have. Listen, listen to five of our podcasts. If you don't like us, don't do business with us. Because that's who we are.

31:28 Right. So so even though someone's trying to test us, we're not going to try and be something to everybody. We're going to be true to who we are because if we pass the test, we'll do business with them. Right. And so, so here's some ways to deal with it. Let them be the smartest. It's okay. You're not, you're trying to win a sale and not be the smartest, the person in the room. Right. Let them be the smartest person in the room.

31:52 Talk to them, ask their opinion, try to pull them onto your side so that they're your advocate because that strong personality either against you, or they're either going to be all against you're all for you. So if you pass their test, they're going to be all for you, right? So ask their opinion, agree with them when you agree with them. So be ferocious in your agreement. Is it a word? I'm not sure. Yeah. Yeah. I use to make words up.

32:20 So, okay. So it's not a word somebody let me know. But but if they make a point that you agree with, really be all in on it and never embarrass them or point out that they're wrong. So true. Oh my gosh, they just will hate you forever. They will. If they could discover it on their own, they'll hide it. And what's the old saying? The person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still. Exactly. So you didn't win that argument.

32:45 You just you just look like you did. So right. A couple of things. Sometimes I think these are the cleverest people in the room too. I think sometimes the smartest person in the room is that one that shuts up and doesn't say anything and takes all the information in. Those are the people that we really have to draw into the conversation. And as I say to the people that are closest to me, my loved ones, I say, I don't want to win an argument with you.

33:08 I want to have a conversation. Yeah. And and when you take that position of being equal and collaborating towards a common goal, it's not your way. It's not my way. It's a better way. And we got that when we did the Stephen Covey book. That's where I got that is there's more collaboration. There's more of a conversation with with those folks too. Right. And again, you know, they're they're going to be more hostile. If you challenge them, then if you agree with them.

33:33 So because they want to argue and they want to win an argument. But if we have a approach, I don't want to win an argument and want to have a conversation, that's different. That's difficult. All right. So those are the six. I'll go through them again real quick. The deal shopper, the hesitant buyer, the angry client, the impatient customer, the verbose prospect and the smartest person in the room. Yeah. Yeah. Great topic, Bill.

33:57 I think all relevant to our listeners and I think that they can look in their past appointments and go, I know who that person is or next time you go into appointment, you'll be able to call them out and define them a little bit easier. All right. What's our golden nugget for today? So golden nugget today is you can't change the people around you, but you can change the people around you. Joshua feels Milburn. I think I did a search on that and there's a few different authors on it.

34:26 But you cannot change the people around you. You cannot change their behavior. We need to swap the people out for other people. Yeah. And we need to have people around us that are going to support us, encourage us, empower us, challenge us and tell us when our altitude is getting a little too high. Yeah. I did that to my father-in-law. He thought I was a flake for starting my own business because he had worked for Caterpillar Tractor for 40 years and he was talking down my business.

34:50 And I finally said, Jack, if you want to see your grandkids, you need to support what I'm doing. And your negative attitude isn't helping me want to be around you. And he said, Oh, I didn't even think about that. Yeah. Yeah. So so he was trying to have his way. You get sometimes you got a challenge and we got a great after that. So I'm sure the respect level went up to, Bill. Have courage. All right. Everything that we're talking about today is at winning at selling.com.

35:14 All the information in the show notes. This is this is episode six, 31. So next week, the topic is going to be five words in concepts. And we're going to finish the book with Joe Conrad, chapters 32 through 35. And again, our next book is new sales simplified by Mike Weinberg. So please subscribe and share this podcast with your colleagues and our social media. Go out and get better one skill at a time. Joyful selling.