The Power of Product Differentiation

0:04 Thank you for joining us on the Winning and Selling Podcast. I'm Professor Scott Plum of the Minnesota Sales Institute and with me is Bill Hellkamp of Reach Development Systems. One of the keys to maintaining value is to be able to differentiate your product or service from the competition. While this can be difficult to do, it is necessary to keep from becoming commoditized. Be ready for some critical thinking as Scott and I investigate the power of product differentiation and other Flippant philosophies on episode 673 of the Winning and Selling Podcast.

0:40 I could have never gotten through that on the first try, Bill. Flippant philosophy. Like complicated words. I can't say compartmentalize. Well, there you go. They're rehearsing it and going through it. So we've got the book today, we're doing sales perspective by Jimmy Z. They're covering parts two, chapters eight and nine. And Bill and I just want to share a few things that are going on with us. One thing is we mentioned on the last show that we're starting to concentrate our focus on developing franchises.

1:07 And that's two areas. I think that's a hard way to say that, Scott. It sounds like we're franchising our business. We're not. We're not franchising our business. No, we're working with supporting and developing end units, franchisees and supporting franchise ores on creating that culture of sales within their units if they have a service-based franchise. What our investigation has shown us is that there's very few or very little sales training being specialized for franchise ores.

1:39 Yeah. And for franchisees, it's go get them tiger. Right. Right. Here's our product. It's really great. Go get them tiger. And when you create that culture and that accountability, it's amazing the results that can come out of that. It's also, what do you do? I mean, when I move from retail sales to outside sales, nobody taught me anything until I moved over to Carnegie. I'd had four years of going, how do I make a phone call?

2:07 How do I do any of this stuff? So I played it like retail. I waited for him to come in my store. Wow. Think about how social media has an impact on how we communicate with other people. We're looking at our phones. We're on social media all the time. We're texting. We're posting. But if we have a conversation with somebody sitting across the counter from us or across the desk or even on the phone, how effective are we going to be when we have very little experience on the human interaction?

2:34 We'll see how that all compounds over time. And AI is going to have a lot to do with what's going on there. So interesting. All right, let's get into Jimmy's. Oh, we got another announcement. Another announcement. Another announcement. So let's go on. So let's go on. Again, this depends on the source, et cetera. But the top 90 sales management podcast, the winning of selling podcast was number three. Guess who was number two?

2:57 I know. But you say. Mike Weinberg was number two. And he's great. Another one that's very popular was number one. And I sent an email to Mike. And I said, hey, I woke up to this this morning. Just thought it might make your day. And he responded promptly. And it was nice to be recognized. And it's nice to be one click behind him. Because I do think he is a leader in this industry and grateful to be associated with him.

3:19 Well, we got number three. And we don't even focus that much on sales management. It's part of what we talk about. Right. But it's not our key. And a lot of the other ones, it was their key driver. I'm sure it was determined by peer-to-peer surveys and other sales managers, asking other sales managers, what podcast do you listen to the most? And I think ours was number one. All right. So let's go ahead. That's great news.

3:40 That's great news. But we better get into Jimmy here. We're going to run out of time. Today, we're going to cover chapters eight and nine. And chapter eight is on clarify. And the subtitle is, clarify value propositions. Simplify your message. And he starts off with a quote, as he does every chapter. And this one is, clarity attracts confusion repels by Katie Oberburner. And that just didn't quite roll off my tongue like I thought it might.

4:06 I thought maybe clarity attracts confusion. Distracts might be a better way of saying it. But I can't change it. But that wasn't the quote. He'd have to be a hero. That wasn't the quote. That wasn't the quote. So it starts off by first clarifying what is the definition? So the quality of being clear is clarity. And it has three parts to it. One is quality of being easily understood. The second is the state of having a full, detailed, and orderly mental grasp of something.

4:33 And number three is free from confusion. And as we think about that word during this chapter, some of the things that Jimmy writes about, I think are going to be clearer for us to understand. So the first thing he starts off with, needing to know what he starts off with, knowing the needs of your clients, how your program services may help them, and sharing only the necessary information to help them solve their issues or need.

4:59 And I think this is really important. I think Bill, you probably taught this for many, many years when you were doing presentation, coaching, and training. And that is only present what is talked about. In the future, with your putting together a proposal, when you're clarifying messages and understanding of each other, only present what is talked about. And the second is listen for symptoms and separate them from the problems.

5:24 Too often, we hear symptoms, and we don't really know what the problems are. The problems could be a combination of different symptoms outside of the ones that are known, and the ones that are known. Here's a challenge for most salespeople. We're gonna run into this in the next chapter, so I wanna go into it there in a little bit more detail. But this is how Jimmy started the book. If you talk about your product first, without doing discovery, you have to tell them everything, and hope they jump up and say, that's it, that's what I want.

5:57 If you do good discovery, you're gonna find out what the real issues are, and then you can focus down on how your product meets or exceeds those, those solves those issues for that particular customer. And anybody who's not doing good discovery is gonna end up with the mud against the wall approach to selling. Tell them everything and hope they jump up and say, this is it. So you really need to do good discovery. And then the reason you don't tell them about things they don't aren't interested in is because you cause confusion.

6:29 What was your quote? Confusion. Repels. Yeah, it just stops us from making a decision. If your customer is shrugging their shoulders, they're going to wait, and a customer who waits usually doesn't buy. Well, just think about how hard some salespeople make the prospect to make a decision. They gotta sift through everything that was shared, try to find out what's most meaningful, hope they didn't miss or discard something that's important, and they don't have a salesperson that guides them through the entire process.

7:00 Well, you're assuming they know more about your product than you do, and if I just tell you enough, they'll figure out which one it is. Well, here's another thing. The salesperson is assuming the prospect knows more about the problem than the salesperson does. Well, the prospect doesn't know more about the problem. A salesperson probably knows more about the problem because they've seen it over and over and over again.

7:19 The prospect may only know the symptoms, but not really understand the problem, or they understand the problem, but don't understand and comprehend the outcome of not fixing that problem. That business leader that you're talking to has 20 different things on their counter that they're trying to deal with, and your product service needs satisfaction is only one of them. There's no way they can be as expert as you. They're an inch deep and a mile wide.

7:44 A salesperson is a leader with specific knowledge in an area to be able to create a better outcome for their prospects, and that's their goal. That's the intrinsic motivation and satisfaction of a salesperson to be able to work with somebody to give them a better solution, better outcome, better life. And- All right, we've beaten this horse. Yeah, we have. For those that are riding a good dog. Get our horse, get going.

8:08 The next thing that he pointed out is, you will provide the greatest value when you position your presentation to the perspective of what's most important to the customer. Keep that in mind always, always. And another line that he includes in the chapter is, stay within the allotted time. Know the difference between good to know and need to know. And sometimes salespeople exceed their time. The clock expires. They have no self-awareness.

8:39 The prospects frustrated. They don't want to peer rude, but your stock is going down as a salesperson. If you overrun the clock and go into overtime, when the prospect is not initiating it. Now, if the prospect is initiating, asking a lot of questions, then we've got all the time in the world in most cases. Let's work with them to add clarity, which is this chapter, to understand what each party can agree on going forward.

9:01 So, he closed out this chapter with a three-step process. I really love this. It is, understand a challenge, present a solution, and define, and assign the outcome, the projected outcome based on the challenge, solution outcome. And you see a lot of political letters written in this format. I think it's very, very effective. All right, chapter nine is on confirm. The subtitle is accuracy, review and acknowledge unity.

9:30 The quote is, "'A salesperson cannot know too much, "'but he or she certainly can talk too much.'" And that's by her friend, Frank Betcher from the book, How I Raised My Sell From a Failure to Success and Selling. I think that was Steve Cloy does first book that he ever did on the podcast. Oh, I love Frank Betcher. Yep. He's so good. I read that in the 80s, and it was so relevant back then, which means it's probably still relevant today.

9:55 So, let's keep in mind, this is the confirm, confirm step. This is not the closing. What the closing step is the commit step, but we're gonna talk about that. And we don't have to close according to Jim. No, exactly, exactly. And this step is more confirming about what we've talked about and what we've agreed upon as next steps. And this is why it's so important to have that clarity, define what's most important, and confirm it is important, and it is a priority, and we're motivated to change it, fix it and get a better outcome with it.

10:28 Well, I had a friend of mine that I used to work with, and I really like this guy, he was a great guy, but he worked at Carnegie with me, and he would talk him into it, talk him into it, talk him out of it, talk him into it. And it just depend on when he finally ran out of gas, either they were in the class or they were out of the class, but according to Omar Bradley talking to General Patton, you just don't know when to shut up George.

10:55 And that's what my friend, he just didn't know when to stop talking. Yeah, yeah, so he said. In this chapter, he says, now resist the temptation to jump too quickly to close the deal, instead strive to close any gaps in understanding to confirm you are together in your thinking. And this is on the same page going forward, it was on page 69 and page 70. Remember, Bill, you talked about these illustrations and the gap and you didn't quite understand the gap.

11:26 So here's where Jimmy's kind of bringing it together. Is he says, just close the gap of understanding and confirm you are together in your thinking. And we just need to sell that 5% in order to get somebody 100% committed to moving forward. Well, one of the things I felt as I was reading through this chapter, that Jimmy was a little long-winded during his appointment. My first discovery appointment is spent about 80 to 90% on discovery, only a few minutes on confirming at that point.

11:56 And what I want them to do, I'm really selling the next step, which is a proposal where I want to put my thoughts together in a logical and written way. I don't want to blow all of it in this first appointment. Oh, here's how we should solve your problem. We solved your problem in the first appointment. It was a cheap, valueless solution. I want that to take a little bit of time, take some effort on my part and put together a good program.

12:22 Another tool I think that can be used is the letter of understanding. And that's where you can confirm in a written manner after the appointment. Here's what we talked about. Here's what I agreed to. Here's what I'm going to do in the meantime. Here's what you're going to do in the meantime. And when we get back together again, here's what we'll talk about. And I think that letter of understanding can do a lot in this commitment step.

12:45 Truly, truly. And I love how you create a very specific and detailed situation so that everybody understands, here's what we talked about. This is the elephant in the room. Here's a situation that we're all in. Let's all work together to solve it. And he closes out this chapter with this concept of being an assistant buyer. So you're a salesperson. When you work as an assistant buyer with your prospect and you're sitting on the same side of the table with your prospect against a problem on the other side of the table, you're working with them as an assistant buyer.

13:17 So how should we fix this? What process should we go through? What criteria do we need to look for? What desired outcome are we one? What other people are involved in trying to fix it? And really asking the prospect, all of these questions to get all that information to clarify and then to confirm before getting into the next step. Well, I think you do this by talking about getting on their side of the table. Yeah. And basically the metaphorically putting your arm around them and saying, hey, we're on the same team here.

13:44 Let's figure this problem out. Right. And I think that's a great way to do that. But this assistant buyer's a good idea as well. Yeah. Another way of looking at it. So next week, we're gonna be covering chapters 10 and 11. And boy, we should probably be announcing our next book here coming up. So we'll do that a little bit later in the show. We're coming to the end of Jimmy's book. It went by fast. Yeah, it's a good book.

14:05 It's a nice breezy read. I like his writing style. So sometimes you get in these. He's got some gems in there too. Oh yeah. Some things that are very powerful. But it is an easy read. It's a fun read. You can tell Jimmy's spirit is really coming out in the book. When you meet Jimmy and read the book, you know that it's not written by AI. You can just tell that. That's Jimmy's voice in the book. So thank you, Jimmy. Well, now we're gonna move on to our next topic.

14:30 And that is the power of product differentiation. And I think this is one of the most powerful tools in your process. If you can't determine how you're different in a better and useful way, right? Not just different. But different in a better and useful to the customer way, you are not gonna be able to differentiate yourself. Therefore, you're gonna become a commodity. And when you're a commodity, they're gonna beat you up on price and smack you around.

14:57 And you're gonna sit there flailing with nothing else to say except, okay, I don't know why I'm better. So I guess I have to be cheaper. I'm losing money on each one, but we make it up in quantity. That's right. That's right. It's finonally getting the hay. All right. So what is product differentiation? Well, it can be in a lot of areas. It doesn't just have to be a product feature. So it can be. Can be our product does this.

15:21 I've done the drill example. It could be a higher voltage. So it provides more torque. It could be an easier way to get the drivers in and out. There's some feature, right? It could be quality. Could be how well we're built. We buy some things because they're built better than others. And we're willing to pay more because we can feel the quality. It could be design, a unique design. The way it's packaged is interesting.

15:49 Apple does some very fancy packaging on their phones. And people open them with kind of this. They put them on YouTube. They're opening their new iPhone and the box and all that feel is important to them. Could be brand reputation. We've spent a lot of money on building our brand. How is our customer service? Or it can be price. I like to put price last because I am not a price leader. I'm not going to lower my price down to do a crappy job for you.

16:21 So our Scott and our value differentiation is going to be elsewhere. But it answers the question, why should I buy your product instead of someone else's? Right. How would you respond to that question if a prospect asks you that question, Bill? How, what are you talking about our product? Yeah, yeah. Any sales job you have, any role that you played when you were selling something, a prospect asks you, why should I choose your product over somebody else?

16:47 It's different for everyone. Mm-hmm. For our product right now, it's because we're going to, we're going to customize it to you. We're going to do the pre-work to talk to your, whether it's your vendors, your salespeople, your teammates. We're going to find out what the needs are. Really do a deep self-analysis and then we're going to develop a product that's going to meet those needs. Right. You're identifying what's most important and the priorities of what's most important.

17:13 I think another good response is, well, I'm not sure you should. Is it okay if I ask you a few questions? When it comes to making this decision, how important is it to solve the problem on a scale of one to 10? I mean, if it's a two, well, we should stop talking right now and do something else. If it's a 10 or a nine, then, well, let's define a criteria as to what the product, you know, what the solution looks like. And now that's, you know, you're getting on the same side of the table with them and you're talking about how do we go through this with them and say, I'm not sure you should buy our product.

17:43 Let's figure out if it's the best fit or not. Yeah. And now that- That's if they're asking this question really early in the process. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I'm assuming we've done discovery already before we got this question. Yeah. Yeah. So you're using it as a lead-in to do more discovery. Well, I'm also leading it. I'm also using it for that salesperson that maybe skipped the preparation for that question coming at them on step four, five, or six to the sales process when they should have addressed it in front.

18:08 Well, I do think that if you don't know what going into your first sales meeting with anybody, you don't know enough about your product. Right. Yeah. You've got to differentiate. Unfortunately, all the product information that we see very little of is on differentiation. So we go through our bootcamp and we get product product product but it's all just features, benefits. It's not why. So I think we've got to do that.

18:33 All right. Let's talk about the strategic power of when we differentiate our product. First thing it does is it builds a competitive advantage. So what is our competitive advantage? And if we know that competitive advantage, go back to your thought, we can design our questions to lead toward the competitive advantage. Anything that we do better than our competition, we want to bring up early in our questioning. So it gets the prospect thinking, huh, maybe that's something I want.

19:06 Our question can lead them to make a conclusion. If they don't know that's available, they're not going to desire it. Isn't that kind of the Steve Jobs approach? I know what they need. They don't know what they need because they don't know what's possible. Is it something like that? Yeah. Yeah. And so sometimes we have to know our differentiation so that the questions we ask drive us toward them saying, well, I didn't know that was available.

19:31 I think that's a good idea. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Lead with your strengths. I think when we did the Challenger sale, one of the lines on the Challenger sales lead to the solution, not lead with it. And this is a way that you can create a unique selling proposition that is you're the only one that's offering it. And that's the strength, that's the leverage that you have when you have those conversations. So in our situation, we'll go into a customer and we'll be talking about what, let's say a sales manager thinks a sales team needs.

20:03 And the question we'll ask is, how does your sales team feel about that? What do they think they need? And they always look at us with this blank stare like I never thought to ask them. Right. Yeah. And then we say, well, what if there was a system that would allow them to be asked? Would that be important to you? So we're leading with those questions toward our strength because we know that's a strength of ours. All right.

20:26 Number two, strategic advantage. It increases customer loyalty. So when you do something better than the competition and it's recognized by the customer and they experience the value that they get from that. Well, again, whether it's the design or the quality of manufacture or we even had a customer that the ease of getting the product out of the box for the manufacturing line was an advantage. The way they packaged it was done in such a way that it was facilitated the movement onto the production line.

21:00 Yeah. And that was their advantage. So boy, was that customer loyalty that has nobody even thought about doing that for them or even talking to them about, can we package this in such a way that make it easier for you? Very extreme value and very highly customized. And I don't think any other vendor or supplier would go through that much work to be able to invest in that kind of relationship. So well played on their part.

21:21 That's right. That's right. All right. So number three, strategic advantage. It enables premium pricing. So instead of worrying about price, if you've got something that the customer wants, if there's a look at Apple phones, they aren't going, oh, we'll give it to you for $50 or we're price cutting. Oh, it's on sale. Geez, you're gonna pay full price for that Apple phone and people are gonna line up to be able to pay that full price when the new one comes out.

21:54 So now the differentiation has become less and less over time. They're trying to figure out how am I gonna differentiate iPhone 29 from whatever we're doing right now. But they're looking at that and they're trying to figure out why can we keep our pricing at a premium level because we're better than the rest. Right. I think sometimes when customers get into a situation

22:22 where they feel like they're paying too much for something, maybe they're not seeing the value in it. And maybe if they don't see the value, maybe they're not a fit for that particular product or service. I think sometimes expectations are important and if expectations are met, then we have value if expectations are not met or there's a disruptor in that, then the expectations are not met. Some people will complain about paying too much to something that's very valuable.

22:46 And other people will see the value and be perfectly comfortable paying the price because they see the value in it. And then there's people who are negotiators like me, so I'm gonna tell you a negotiation secret. Even if you love the product and it's high price, ask for a lower price. See if the salesperson is uncomfortable enough with the price conversation that they will lower the price for you, even though you would have been happy to pay the full price.

23:12 Right. Or adjust the price. And that's one of the challenges for salespeople. Or adjust the price or adjust the value. They might add something in. They're all gonna give me something. What? Yeah. They're all gonna give me something. They will. It just happens. So, all right. Number four is kind of similar. It reduces price competition. Because we're not talking about price, we're talking about value. We're not trying to be the lowest price.

23:39 And sometimes we lose a sale because, here's the challenge. If you lower your price to sell to a price-oriented buyer instead of a value buyer, you just bought yourself a pain in the ass. And Scott and I have a client

23:58 that we stopped doing business with because they did not value us. They wanted the lowest price. They, we gave them a low price, a fair price. They wanted it even cheaper. They wanted us to just drop our pants and give it to them for nothing. And we said, we're not gonna do that. And we lost the business and that's fine. Well, we don't know if we lost it. I think you're more optimistic than I am. In the steps that they're going through, I think they're trying some other things and I think they're feeling confidence in working with us to try some other things.

24:35 And time will tell. And the best to work out for both of us, I think we'll be able to part ways and know that we had an impact during a period of time. And I think we did. I think we did. But again, I'm not gonna change my value proposition to meet one customer's expectations. Oh, there has to be some confidence in the pricing. And if you have a reputation of constantly giving discounts every time somebody asks or doesn't ask and you automatically give a discount to buy today and you can take 10% off, you're really building a reputation.

25:07 And the perceived value is that you're not really confident in what your work is and everybody's gotta build a cut the price to build and make up the difference. All right, super. Let's go and do a few of the different types of product differentiation. We would cover this a little bit. Some can be a feature or function. So that phone with a longer battery life, that drill with a higher voltage, so it has more torque. It can be service based.

25:30 So the example that we gave of the client who changes their packaging to facilitate the movement on the manufacturing floor can be that, can be brand based like Nike or Apple, right? It's one of those things that's the brand is so hot that people just wanna do it. But you know that brand stuff can die. And I've been listening or watching a few things. Under Armour was the hottest thing going for a while. And now their brand is kind of dying.

25:59 I don't know exactly why, but they're just not having the sales they used to have. So what happened there? It can be design based. So for you and I, we went through the computer revolution from typing things in on CMOS or whatever. The C prompt to using a mouse.

26:23 And when they use the mouse interface, man, that changed the whole world. And that put Apple way ahead because they had that interface. And then finally the customer experience. Am I easy to do business with? Got easier to do business with than I am. Well, if I have some, it needs a nice person, I give them to Scott, but they need a little kick and see the pants. Scott says, hey, why don't you talk to Bill? Yeah, Bill has a firmer handshake than I do.

26:48 Why don't you talk to him? So we compliment each other. But those technical people that are listening at home, I'll, I'll define what the CMOS settings are for them. And they don't really care. I don't really care. The C prompt. I really don't, I really don't care. I used to sell computers when they first came out. I sold the first Radio Shack Model 1 in Iowa to some farmer who didn't know why the keyboard had a, screen at the TV attached to it.

27:18 But we went ahead and sold it. We had no programs, just type stuff in. And it was a hobbyist sort of thing. Right. And so we didn't even know how to use them. Let's differentiate them. So we only sold the people who were curious enough to try and figure it out in their own. So let's talk about last topic, some keys to successful differentiation. So if you're trying to find that differentiation, number one, you need to know what the customers, pain points are, you need to know their preferences, you need to know what drives their decision.

27:52 And you can only do that by having enough conversations with clients that use your product or service to let them tell you. We've, Scott and I discovered our value over time. When we mentioned, when we mentioned doing this needs assessment, man, did their eyes light up. We knew we were doing something different. And what we really stress, and we talk about this on the podcast all the time, what is the goal of doing the podcast?

28:16 Number one, it prevents Bill and I from getting sticky. We've got to come up with a new topic. Stinky. Yeah. Stinky and sticky. Stinky and sticky. And that's right. And make sure that we're relevant. So our podcast and for the benefit of the listeners is made to be relevant, it's something that you can use. And Bill and I are sharing information that people, prospects can use, and it's relevant. In doing an assessment, we're finding out what the challenges are within that specific company or culture.

28:46 And then our solution is what's most relevant to the challenge and the outcome that they want. So our solution is customized and prescribed in a way that it only works for them. It's like a custom suit. It's only going to fit them as nicely and as comfortably because there's nobody else like that in that situation. Now there's common similarities, but nothing is completely unique as that with that particular customer.

29:08 Right, right. And I think what that also gives us is when we go into a customer conversation, we have a lot of thoughts going on in our head. We're able to adapt very quickly to those customer needs. And I think that is our way of innovating. Very much so. Yep. And they get the best value for it too because they're only paying for what they need. Is that a commercial? I hear that someplace else. There you go. Subconsciously, I got it in my mind.

29:36 All right, all right. Next number three, communicate clearly. So differentiation is no good if you don't understand it and you can't communicate to the customer. Now one of the things about differentiation I think we need to focus on is it's not always demanded by the customer. So we talked about designing your questions so that the customer wants what you're differentiating, but they may not understand or know about it until you present that to them.

30:03 So I think that breaks the rules sometimes. If only talking about what the customer says they need, you have to show them that this is something that they may want. Oh, I totally agree. And if you look at the value table, it's here's what the same as is. Here's what's different as is. And then here's what's better than what you have. And the solutions and the options that you're looking at. So what's the same as different and better?

30:31 And once you categorize those three, now you've got a value table where people can decide and pick what they want. Sometimes people don't want to change on everything. Sometimes it's something that they want to keep, only have it in a different product. All right, number four, we align across teams. And that means the product people, the marketing people, and the sales people should all understand what the differentiator is.

30:52 And we've had situation Scott where we've gone in and marketing has said, let's do this is what we do. And then the sales person goes in and the customer calls because this is what we do. And the sales person calls goes in and says, we don't do that. And they just blew their own sales opportunity

31:11 because what the customer said, they wanted them in marketing, sales and marketing weren't in conjunction with one another and talking about the same thing. And so you need to make sure you're aligned, especially between marketing and sales because marketing is putting a message out there that sales needs to echo. And if they're not echoing it, they're in problem. So that is the key to differentiation. I hope you go out and think through what makes us different in a better and valuable way.

31:38 Wow, good stuff, Bill, thank you. We've got some resources that will have available that are show notes. One is our next book is called The Power of Purpose by Mitch Larson. And Bill, you know Mitch, he's- Mitch and I have been friends for 40 years and he's a great guy. And it's a workbook, which is really interesting. It's a different style than we've worked on before, but it's a workbook. So we'll have a link to that.

32:02 You can go on Amazon and get The Power of Purpose by Mitch Larson. Yeah, we'll have a link there, but make sure you look at the one from Mitch Larson. And then we'll also have a link to the 90 Sales Management Podcast there as well. Number three, pretty good. Yeah, yeah, number three out of 90. And you know what I think our most amazing statistic is and you've looked at this guy, we're in the top 1% of all podcasts in the whole world.

32:28 We're in the top 1%. That's just, I think that's amazing. And if you're listening, well you're obviously listening, you wouldn't hear this. Tell your friends about it. Turn them on to it. And growing and growing. Our goal in Nugget today is if you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Wow, that echoes what Jimmy was talking about. What doesn't it? Yeah, that's from Albert Einstein. Albert Einstein, Albert Einstein said.

32:51 And that's, you know, and sometimes when people say something, they make it sound so easy. And you know what, they went through a lot of work to make things easy. I think what was it? Mark Twain said, if I had more time, I would have written you a shorter letter. That's right. Incredible. Yeah. Cool. Nice. All right. All the information that you need to know is at winning at selling.com. You might have to put the three W's in there for it to pop up.

33:15 This is episode 673. So next week we're going to be covering moving from rep to manager. And in the book, sales perspective, chapters 10 and 11. Please subscribe and share this podcast with your colleagues and on your social media networks. I'm grateful if you give us a five star review and post a favorable comment. If it's not favorable, please tell us directly. We want to hear from you. Go out and get better one skill at a time.

33:41 Joyful selling.