Should You Respond to an RFP?

0:04 Thank you for joining us on the Winning and Selling Podcast on Professor Scott Plum of the Minnesota Sales Institute and with me is Bill Hellkamp of Reach Development Systems. And together, we launched Franchise Sales Pro with a commitment to work with Franchise Ours and Franchise E's to drive sales and boost revenue. Responding to a request for proposal can be a powerful way to win new business. But only if it's the right opportunity.

0:30 RFPs often demand considerable time, resources and cross functional coordination. So blindly responding to everyone can lead to wasted effort, low win rates and team burnout. Look up your RFP win rates as Scott and I question, should you respond to an RFP and other magnificent using on episode 677 of the Winning at Selling Podcast. I'm looking forward to that topic Bill. I remember that conversation and that client that we worked with was amazing.

1:04 And I don't want to spoil the punchline so you save it for later. It's my opening of my thing. So crazy. Well Bill and I were just at a franchise summit put on by a local offer for the last two days. And what an amazing event. We hung around with some of the biggest brands in the marketplace. I heard a presentation by the founders of Anytime Fitness. The owner of Puroclean. We saw that people from that launch swim schools doggy daycares in home services from taking care of your parents to taking care of the pavement on your driveway.

1:39 And so many other B2B brands. And was really interesting Bill is our theme really stuck our number one goal is to focus on unit level economics, which refers to the sales revenue at the local level where a person to person conversation happens. And when a conversation converts to a commitment and if you want Bill and I to present it your next regional or national conference and use what we present on the podcast to your team please give us a call and reach out.

2:09 Yeah, it's amazing how many people will start a business or franchise and just make the assumption that everyone's going to flock to their door because I put my sign out there. And they want to do the thing, right? I want to put the I want to put the new coating on your floor, but I don't want to sell you. Right. Right. And I don't know how to do that. And we've been had somebody say well nobody wants to be in sales and that may be true.

2:36 But that's if they feel that way they don't know how to sell. Well, they're not. Because they're thinking selling means pushing somebody into a decision instead of having a good conversation about how to get that decision moving forward. So I think Jimmy's book that we're going to go into soon. It's a great example of somebody who sells through helping people to learn more and make a good decision. So he is a partner with them.

3:00 I use the word help. I'm sorry. No, Jimmy uses the word help as part of his character. And it's going to be tough for for that to be removed because I think that that's all part of the formula that makes up Jimmy who Jimmy is. Is that so today we're having the last chapter, chapter 14, part three. And the title of it is the big picture, your sales legacy and the quote that he has at the beginning of every chapter is this one is legacy is not leaving something for people.

3:26 It's leaving something in people by Peter Strobel. And I thought that that's the essence of leadership. I think it's also the essence of sales and sales is leadership is when you want to be able to leave something in somebody instead of leave something for them. Yeah, we're we're trying to change people's behavior. Some people buy, you know, we get into situations all the time where someone's already focused on price or they only focused on one part of the whole project and part of changing their behavior is by having a discussion that helps them evaluate more effectively all the different things that are going to happen to them through the sales process through the decision and what happens after the decision.

4:07 You know, we have a lot of people who want to buy training. But we're training really happens is in the follow up. And when we skip the follow up, very little happens as as a result of the training. So can't microwave people into new behaviors. It's adoption. I mean, we've brought it up so many times. It's the adoption of the content. It's the application of the content that's going to give you the value. Just like the solution is of your proposal.

4:31 That's where the value comes out as the application. It's leaving something in people. Yes. Yeah. So Jimmy starts off the chapter with five questions. They are. Where are you going? Are you on track? Is this moving you towards your goal? Are you sure this is what you want? And are there any alternatives you should consider? Interesting about these five questions as the first one is the only open ended one. Oh, where are we going?

5:00 You know, that's not a yes or no question. Right. Right. Well, you know where I think these questions will get answered better. Here's what's really cool. Our next book is The Power of Purpose. Mm-hmm. And it's a workbook format that Mitch Larson has written. And he's going to deal really deeply into these questions, I think, about what is it you want to really get out of life? Not just where are you going, but where are you taking your life?

5:25 And I think it's going to be very effective. So if these are important, do you get took into our next book? Yeah. It's kind of like you walk into the mall and you go, I want to get to that store over there. Where am I? Where is that store? You look at the mall. You look at the map of the mall. You are here. And this is in the book. The motivation of these questions is to pull out your mental compass and make sure you're on track based on what you value the most.

5:49 And he's applied value in every single one of these questions. And there's a follow up question when it's a closed-ended question. So you have to evaluate it. Yes or no? If it's no, you need to come up with a better answer. And to be able to stay on track with answering those five questions, I think it's going to give you a greater likelihood of getting where you want to be. Well, and I think you need also to decide what kind of person you are, Scott.

6:11 So I can remember you talked about going to the mall. When I go to the mall, I'm looking for a store. I'm going to look for the shortest path to that store with the least distractions. I can remember going to store with my mother to the mall with my mother. And her job, her goal was to wander the mall aimlessly, waiting for something to jump out at her and say, buy me. And I'm like, what are we here for? I had a goal.

6:38 Her goal was to experience the mall. My goal was to go buy the thing, get out of there. So you've got to figure out what is it that you want? That's why I think this power purpose is going to be so good. She might enjoy wandering the mall, having the adventure. I'm more into the productivity of getting something done. Who are you? And that can be really important to this. Well, along with the values, what do you value most?

7:06 Do you do the five questions? You also have to think about what your priorities are. What are your priorities? Is there friction within your priorities that will increase your stress in your life, whether it be at home or in work or other things that are going on in your family? And when we think about these questions and we want to be growth oriented, we've got to be kind of concerned is that when we change everybody around us changes, and there are some people that don't want us to change.

7:30 And they might subconsciously want to hold us back from becoming a better person because they don't want to be left alone. Well, I agree with that statement a lot. There are people that don't want us to change because that may force them to change or look in a mirror to say, why am I not growing or getting any better? We've known plenty of people who their maximum life capacity happened in their senior year at high school.

7:59 And they've never moved on. They've never read another book. They're proud of that. They've caught every football game that they could on TV. And when you say, listen, I just don't want to spend seven hours on Sunday watching a football game. I want to do something. They can't believe that you would want to do that. So we are going to outgrow people if we grow. And it's a challenge that we don't want to put people in the dust, but it's going to happen.

8:28 Yeah. Yeah. So in the book on the chapter, he talked about a few lists. He talked about the 13 virtuals of Ben Franklin. You can find that on the internet. I'm not going to go through them. There's the seven point creed philosophy of the life from John Wooden, the LA Lakers basketball coach. I think that was it. No, UCLA basketball. UCLA. Thank you, everybody. And the last, we beat you to the beat. I caught it. I caught it.

8:57 Everybody was thinking, no, it's not right, professor. I got what they're thinking. If we just say something wrong, we got to say something, get it back on track. Right. But he closed out the chapter. He closed out the book with his top 10 leading principles for work and life. And I'll start with number one. He says, be enthusiastic. I like that. I think when you bring a certain amount of optimism and outlook, I think it really makes a big difference on your reputation, the conversation and the relationship.

9:28 Number two is be curious. Well, where do we hear that? A couple of podcasts back. We had Jason Talley on a show and he talked about the professor worth, the owner of the company. I mean, that's the name of the book is something curious. I can't remember what it is. I'll have to listen to it again. I'm curious about what it is. But it's like something curious. So listen to that episode. We'll have a link in the show notes.

9:53 Number three is be consistent in character. Live out your faith. And I admire that. I think faith is part of a lot of people's ingredients. It's their true DNA. Some people are comfortable sharing it. Some people are not. So whatever comfortable level you're at, then be who you are and be consistent in your character. Number four is focus on others, encouraging them and stand for them. I love this leadership perspective.

10:19 It's focused on others. I love you that go-giver. I think when Jimmy says, as long as your prospect gets what they want, you get what you want and everybody went, let me be. It should be. Yeah, exactly. Number five is be present where I am. That is so true. I think that we live in three time zones. We live in the past with regret. We live in the future with anxiety. And luckily there's medication for that. But we need to just be present where we are right now.

10:45 We can only change what we do right now. We can't guarantee the future. That's right. Number six is operate with integrity. Oh, man, there is a test. You know when you've got an opportunity to act with integrity and when you don't. I went to the grocery store the other day and I bought six gallons of water because the water in the city that I live in is so bad. I also bought a spatula. And I shoved that spatula in the cart right along to those bottles.

11:12 And I only pulled out one bottle. I said, I've got six of these and they sanded six times. And then I went out to the car and I'm unloading it. I said, ah, I didn't get the spatula. Well, I put it in the car and then the next time I went to the grocery store, I grabbed another one off the shelf and I went to the cashier. I said, ring this up and then I'm going to give it to you because I've already taken it home from the last visit I had.

11:32 Just that did pay for it. That's right. I think with integrity or taking examples like that. Now my guilt would have just chewed me up if I would have not gone back and paid for that spatula. And that's just the integrity that I have. And I'm really grateful that I did it. Number seven is keep my cool, remain calm, not always easy. It kind of goes back to number one and number two. Be enthusiastic and to be curious. I think that's going to help.

11:57 Why does that guy drive that way? I wonder why that stupid idiot drives like me. How come they don't use the turn signal? That's right. Why are they keeping it a secret? Why are they testing their brake lights right now in front of me? That's right. That's right. Nothing going on. Yeah, exactly. Number eight, learn from success and failure. We talked about this with Jason is that we learned a lot about our failures. And there's probably a lot more hours of failures than there are successes.

12:24 And you're going to learn a lot more from them. Yeah. You know, when you make a mistake, figure out what happened and why you did it and how can you avoid doing it again? Was the situation the same? Success is sometimes we just pop the quirk and go, who? Yeah, it worked. That's right. But I mean, there's so many failures to get to the success. I think of Elon Musk and all the rockets that he launched. How many fidders did he have?

12:47 And he finally, you know, rescued some astronauts in space and brought him home. Well, I heard he put some rockets up purposely to fail. Yeah. To figure out what the failure rate was on things. So that takes a lot of courage. A lot of guts and a lot of money. So number nine is remain humble. I think that this is the best source of any approach in a conversation is to be curious, be humble, be inquisitive. And I think you're going to be able to create a much better conversations when you're humble.

13:19 And then bringing it home, number 10, but have fun. And I think if it's not fun, don't do it. And if you have a test and fun, find a way to make it fun. And I think it's going to be a lot easier to do. And in sales, we say it's fun making money. And no two days are the same. That's right. If we make no two days the same, sometimes we live the same day and the same week over and over and over again. That's right. And making the same failures.

13:47 Right. But he closes out the chapter. He says, how about you, our listeners? Here's an example. She the paper, 10 lines. What are your 10 guiding principles? If you want to start with Jimmy's, you can go through and listen to him again. I'll repeat him. Number one, be enthusiastic. Number two, be curious. Number three, be consistent in character. Live out your faith. Number four, focus on others, encouraging them. Stand for them.

14:14 Number five, be present where I am. Number six, operate with integrity. Number seven, keep my cool, remain calm. Number eight, learn from success and failure. Number nine, remain humble. Number 10, have fun. Get your 10 guiding principles. Wake up the next morning. Look at them. Live them. Adjust them. I think you're going to have greater focus in your life when you want to achieve your goals and demonstrate your reputation and build your legacy, which I think this chapter is about is really building your legacy.

14:47 Well, let's also, if you're going to have a success, you should also have a conscience. Yeah. Our next book is the Power of Purpose by Mitch Larson and he'll be the guest to kick it off. So check that out. We'll have a link in the show notes. And I think it's just really going to tie into what Jimmy just finished. If you're following along, go out and pick up the book, The Power of Purpose by Mitch Larson and get it on Amazon.

15:10 Here we go. Should you respond to an RFP? You know, I've had this topic on my list here for about three years. And finally, our conversation with Jason Talley made me bring it to the future because it verified what you and I had talked about for years. And sometimes I think we forget that we're right sometimes. So we get that we're right. That's right. That's right. You know, we sometimes in training, we say something so often that you wonder if it's really true anymore.

15:44 Yeah, that's true. And then Jason said, God, don't bring many more quotes that suck. I don't want to do anymore RFPs. So Scott and I worked with a client a few years ago. And as we were working with them, we found that they had a person assigned to answer RFPs. And it took them about a week of their time to do it, plus probably some hours of other people as they ran it by him and other people had to read it. So that means at least 40 hours, probably close to 60 hours was put into each proposal.

16:15 And the previous year, they'd responded to about 50 RFPs. So one a week, 50 weeks, he took a couple of weeks off. So can you guess how many of you remember how many of they closed Scott? I know that it was single digits. Yeah, it was two. Two. It was a good year for them. They'd closed as many as one in previous years. Yeah. And as we talked more like, Oh, man, that's they thought there was a great use of resources. Right.

16:40 They thought that was perfect. And I'm not going to question the wisdom of that company's leadership. But I believe if they thought it through a little bit, they could have answered fewer RFPs and still gotten those two because those two were probably the ones that were most closely aligned with who they were and what they were able to do. So so we do we do hear about companies that are answering a lot of RFPs. And the reason I think we do that is it looks like free business.

17:12 Hey, we get this one. It's a freebie, but they don't take into account the 60 hours that it took to put that thing together and and and the disappointment, even that we feel don't think sometimes when we don't get anything back. Yeah. Now that I'm thinking about it, I think about, you know, when Jimmy opened up the chapter in his book and he kind of did a terrible job on selling, but he won the business and he goes, and it worked.

17:36 And right managers that are running a business and every month they're making a profit and they're going, Hey, it works. But are we working on the right things? Are we working on what's most important? Are we really maximizing our value and really generating as much profit as we can and really making the biggest difference possible for our customers? Well, I think the one customer we had that was selling, closing about 80 or 90% of their quotes.

18:02 Right. Oh, yeah. And we said, that's kind of high. Yeah, you better check your pricing. They checked their pricing. They were the lowest. Their pricing guy was misaligning everything. They weren't making any money on all the quotes they were doing because they were so cheap and they weren't a price leader. That wasn't their goal. So they adjusted up a little bit and they dropped back to 40 or 50% and that they're actually making profit on.

18:27 So, so you can win, you can win and lose at the same time. Right. The old, Hey, congratulations. Good news. We won the Walmart account. Bad news is we won the Walmart account. Right. So we're going to get beaten up every week. All right. So our focus today is to learn how to qualify an RFP and determine whether it's worth the investment. So this should be interesting. Number one, understand the RFP is origin and intent.

18:54 Why are they putting this RFP out? Couple of real reasons. So first thought was the RFP truly open or written with a vendor in mind. Boy, we have seen this and you better learn to recognize your competition's wording. That's right. Because a lot of RFPs have been written by your competition and specifically assigned to them so that no one else can quite meet the expectations of that RFP. Where do we look at that? We see a word with a little R and a circle around it in the right hand corner.

19:28 It's pretty tough to compete with that. If that's right. That's right. Yeah. This we only want this brand. Oh, well, that kind of rules us out. Yeah. But we'll answer it anyway. Well, maybe maybe we'll change their mind. And that brings us to the second question. We invited or did you find it cold? Did you find it in the newspaper? You find it in a trade magazine through these RFPs out to the wind. If you're not personally invited to participate, you're probably not on the short list already.

20:00 Right. Yeah. So you are really driving against the headwinds. If you're just going to be answering these these public RFPs now, maybe different for government, but I doubt it. I don't do a lot of government work. I have a feeling that the government people have already picked some of the winners that they want and you're going to be included if you sign in. And they're glad to get what we call the cannon fodder. Yeah.

20:26 They're glad to get. Oh, hey, we got some we got some example. Oh, boy, look at they're all not quite right. So we can justify our previous selection. And then finally, and this is one that I think this is hard to find or hard to see. Is this really something they want to do? Are they really looking for a new vendor? Or are they just trying to push the price down on their current vendor? Right. So a company will put out an RFP, Scott.

20:50 It's all about pricing. It's all about, you know, generic, but how cheap can you go? And then they can take that new pricing and throw it at their current vendor and say, Hey, look, we've checked this out with the RFP process and these people are cheaper than you. Right. Well, you know, you're just really stressing that point that we've talked about in past shows about the difference between a proposal and a quote. And when you are able to negotiate a proposal, that means there's more than just a quote.

21:21 And that's the difference between the two. You've got a better chance of winning the business if you do a proposal versus just a quote, because you've got more to argue when it comes to value and you've got more to negotiate on a solution. Well, you actually get to talk about value. Right. Yeah. The value isn't just the price of the product. The value is all the things that come with it. I think Jason Talley said, well, we run their inventory for them.

21:46 We track their inventory. And so we're automatically ordering and making sure everything's put in the right bin. Well, that's a value, but it doesn't, it may not come out in an RFP. And what's the frequency of the item? How much space does the bin take up? Who's paying for the rent for that bin? That's right. All those things are negotiated. Well, do I have to pay for the product? Do I pay for it? Once you sell it or do I pay for it when you dump it on?

22:07 How often are we going to receive it? How often are we, you know, supply and restock? I mean, how is the product going to be received? Is it going to be in a big palette? Is it going to be in small boxes that we have to open? How is it going to come in? That's right. That's right. And the procurement person and those who use the people in charge of the RFP creation, they don't even want to talk about any of those things.

22:30 No, they're not graded on any of those things. They're graded on what's got price. Right. I say, here's my Save to Penny award. Save to Penny award for the procurement people, not made everything run better or more efficient or got a better product out the door. So all right. Number two, assess your position with the prospect. Couple of questions to ask yourself. Do you have a relationship with the decision makers or influencers?

22:57 If you're answering a cold RFP, you got no relationship. Right. And so you probably don't have much of a chance because somebody else has been in there working that company, working that relationship. So the RFP is already in somebody else's favor. So what do we do in that situation? We want to find out a little bit more about that person that we're talking to. Jump on LinkedIn and see who they're connected to, see what other companies they worked for, see what associations that they're a part of, see what groups they participate in, find somebody that knows them that you can talk to, that can give you a little bit more greater information about who that person is.

23:32 Well, this is probably going to come up later. But I'm going to, I can't remember if I, if I talk about it here anyway, can you get an appointment with the decision makers? I would not answer an RFP, Scott. If I couldn't get in there and say, listen, I'd really like to spend some time with the people who are going to use this product or service so we can, we can make sure that we can tailor it to their specific needs.

23:54 Oh, no, no, or RFP says it all. No, it doesn't. It doesn't. And I'm not going to waste 60 hours of my time messing with this. If you won't give me any access, if they won't give me any access, I'm not a serious contender and they won't let me in. Right. So, um, have you had a chance to shape the, the, the buying criteria or is that all already laid out in a very specific pattern? Hey, if you're not allowed to change that criteria at all, then you're not going to be eligible for this RFP.

24:25 So be careful of that. And then go ahead. And a good question to ask in that is if, if you're able to talk to somebody, even if it's via email or the phone, is saying, if there was a better way to solve the challenge that you want to solve, would you like me to present it as part of our solution? Or do you want me to match the criteria that you've set because there may be a better criteria? I don't know. Yeah. And if I can ask you a few questions, it won't be your way.

24:53 It won't be my way. It'll be a better way. Do you want to have that conversation? So what's it for them? When they don't want to have that conversation, they're probably not open to seeing it on paper. They don't want to get close because they don't want to have to say no and break up with you. So you're not going to get a first date. And so can you get access? As you're saying here, our last one, can you get access to ask some clarifying questions?

25:14 Can you get in there and have a conversation? Or is it all going to be, no, no, we only do this on paper. Walk away from those because they're not really interested in seeing somebody new. All right. Number three, evaluate fit and strategic alignment. So might look good on the surface, but let's look at it against what we do best. You know, I got to tell you the truth right now, if Scott and I looked at an RFP said, we want a video based training course where it's the same for everybody and it's something out of the box and we just run it.

25:50 And if it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't, you know, I only wouldn't say it that way, but that's what it is. Scott and I would look at it and say, that's not how we do business. Yeah. It's kind of a checking the box mentality too. And that that's just getting it over with, but that's not getting it right. Yep. So some ways to look at it is the opportunity aligned with your ideal customer profile. Is this the kind of customer that you work with, the deal size, the verticals, how they use it?

26:16 If Scott and I look at it and they say, we don't want any follow up or follow up isn't part of it, we probably are going to walk away from it because we know that when training happens is in the follow up, it's in the work that's done after the training happens. All right. All right. Second, second question, can your solution deliver real value to the problems? Are you going to, you're going to do this and it's just going to be an empty exercise and no one's really going to be happy when it's all done.

26:41 Walk away from this. You're not going to build a business that way. Does the RFP size and scope justify the effort? So 60 hours a time. Is it a big enough piece of business? Is it too big? Is it such a big piece of business that when you get it, you can't handle it. You can't really do anything with it. So that size can be really important and are we going to have to, I've been to my, I've worked with customers that had to like hire new people and bring them in and they just weren't ready for the deal that they got.

27:10 So be careful of that. All right. Thought number four, consider your win probability just because you can respond doesn't mean you should. What is your win rate on similar RFPs? So if you've looked at things you've done, and so this is where as I was writing this, I was thinking, you know, for that company that we use as an example, Scott, they did 50 RFPs a year. Right. That's probably okay. The first year. You should learn a lot.

27:40 What did you, here's the question you asked. What did you learn from the 48 you didn't get? Did you learn anything that now that you've had a year of experience of doing this that you can look at an RFP Larry and say, I shouldn't do this one. This is not us. I've done, I did 25 of these last year and we didn't get a one of them and I shouldn't do any of these. So that's what you really need to think about is can you do those kind of an RFP?

28:08 So be careful of that. And that's what I was really disappointed. They'd done that for two or three years of that company. And so they weren't really learning anything. They don't get any response. They don't get any learned lessons at all. I mean, it's like applying for a job, not getting it, but not knowing why you didn't get the job. Right. Wait a minute. What can I have done different? Is it the resumes at the cover letter?

28:28 Is that what, is there a better position based on my skill sets? That's right. Well, and that goes to the next question. Do we have a differentiator that will appeal to this buyer that will give us an opportunity to win over maybe what our competition does? Do we have a unique capacity or ability that then says to the buyer, wow, I've got to go with these. I didn't know such a thing was available. That's one of the problems and not getting to ask questions is they don't even know what other people can do.

28:56 That's that's your, if I could show you a better way question. Right. They don't know that there's a better way out there. So they're not even considering it. That's why it's foolish to do an RFP and not allow people to come in and talk. If you throw these out to the wind, you're going to get all kinds of crazy nuts coming and trying to talk to you that have nothing to do like our customer who's doing 50 of them a year, right?

29:16 Mm hmm. So and then the last one, do you have the bandwidth and resources to respond with excellence? So if you win, are you going to be able to do this well because you don't need a failed program in your in your past because everybody's going to hear about most communities are fairly small. So so what's your win probability? And if you do win, can you take care of it? And this can be very tempting for companies that have a very strong brand and reputation and they end up answering an RFP and they end up winning it based on a cheap price, they may not be able to deliver all of the attributes to maintaining that brand if they're not getting the revenue to support the people and the

29:57 expenses to deliver on that brand and that reputation. Well, I think that's one. I think that's one cause to always stay in touch because quite often these RFPs

30:08 fail. Of course. So if you stay in touch and if you can get some talked with the leadership, you can call six months later and say, Hey, listen, I know we lost that RFP. I think we could have done a good job. Are you happy with the way things are going? And they might be at six months in ready to blow that contract out of the water because they didn't do their RFP the right way. So be careful that. All right. So the user go, no go checklist.

30:32 I like checklists. So I want to think about do I have kind of kind of a scoring process that, you know, if it's over 50, we'll take a chance on it. If it's under 50, we won't. So a competitive position is a great one. Strategic fit. What's the budget clarity and timeline? Are they going to pay enough to do this? We're going to lose money on it. Right. Hey, I won the account. We're losing money on it every one every week, but we want to account.

30:58 Right. Do we have the resources to do it? Do we have a strength enough relationship strength to get this going, create your own kind of a checklist and then verify it. As I said, that company had done a hundred to 150 RFP answers. They should know by now. I had a feeling that guy, Larry, that I'll use that metaphor. He could look at that and by the time he was done, 150 of them, he could go, Oh,

31:25 don't make me do this one or he's doing it on auto track, you know, because it's not going to go anywhere. So figure out what's going to be the most valuable in your, in your mind, in your area and put that time and effort into it. Yeah.

31:40 All right. Finally, the key to all this be selective to be successful. It's a great opportunity. If it meets enough criteria that you're going to take the time and effort to do it. You want to have significant business wins. Will you maybe lose one that you could have been on the edge? Yeah. But to do 150 of them to win one more is probably not going to be the most valuable thing. Right. That, that those 150 weeks worth of work could have been put someplace else to create a new customer somewhere.

32:14 So spend less time on doing a bunch of RFPs that aren't going to bring you value, create some discipline and a strategy around it. And you're going to do much better with fewer RFPs written, are responded to and, and a couple more received because you're doing a better job of choosing them. Yeah. Yeah. Well said, Bill, and I think when you think about 150 proposals over the course of three years and you only win one or two a year, think about how many people that you could have served that you didn't.

32:47 I mean, yeah, that person is spending a lot of time and, and frustrated. Now maybe his boss is saying great job, Larry, but. Well, I think there's a mindset of, you know, we're employed, we're, you know, earning an income, we're raising families. That's all fine. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. My, my focus is on how many people did we not serve because we were really distracted with a process of doing RFPs that has a very low win rate and we're not really able to deliver the value through that channel.

33:18 What other channel can we deliver the value and change people's lives? That's right. That's the actual point. Yep. As we close the show, our golden nugget is in the end, all business

33:27 opportunities can be reduced to three words, people, product and profits. Unless you've got a great team, you can't do much with the other two by Lee Ayakoka. And I picked that one bill because Jimmy opened up the book with his three things, which are the person, the business and the problem. And I thought I'd bring it home with it. Quote similar to what Jimmy opened the book by. That's interesting because I talk about a good business has three things.

33:53 People, product and process. Yes. And and not the product and the profits are meaningless without the people. And I always use the example of coach Green for the Vikings. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Denny Green. He always thought it was his process was so good until he didn't have Duante, Culpeper and Randy Moss. And after he lost those two guys, he wasn't driving the bus anymore. That's right. So I think the people are kind of important.

34:26 No matter how good the process is. So great quote. All right. All the information you can find at winning at selling.com, you might have to put the three W's in there. We're working on that. Look for it there. This is episode six, 77 again next week, Mitch Larson, the power of purpose. No book club. So we'll be talking with him the entire episode about his book. Mm. So our next episode is going to be with Mitch Larson and his book, The Power of Purpose.

34:55 So no book club. We're going to be covering an interview with him and he's going to tell us about his book. Right. Right. So please subscribe and share this podcast with your colleagues on your social media networks. And we'd be grateful for a five star review and a posted favorable comment. And if you don't have a favorable comment, then tell us directly. Yeah, we're glad to answer. Well, I can get better one skill at a time.

35:18 Joyful selling.