Special Guest - Stevie Ray on Improv that Works

0:04 Thank you for joining us on the Winning and Selling Podcasts. I'm Professor Scott Plum of the Minnesota Sales Institute and with me is Bill Hellkamp of Reach Development Systems. And together we founded Franchise Sales Pro with a commitment to work with franchise ores and franchisees to drive sales and boost revenue. How can a centuries old art form help your organization engage employees, build teamwork and create a culture of innovation?

0:30 For decades the techniques of improvisation or improv have helped organizations do just that. If you lead teams, interact with clients or customers or face challenges that need innovative solutions, improv skills can take you to the next level. So let's throw away the script as Scott and I meet with comedian and entrepreneur Stevie Ray to discuss improv that works engage, build and innovate on Episode 681 of the Winning and Selling Podcasts.

1:02 I'm looking forward to the conversation of Stevie Ray and I think Bill's right and I think we're going to have to throw away the script because I think it's going to be bouncing around like popcorn and you never know where the ideas are.

1:10 I love my script Scott. I know you do great safety and security in the script but just a reminder in no book club. We're doing Mitch Larson's book The Power of Purpose. Next week we're going to be covering chapters four and the topic is on obstacles to accomplishing your purpose. All right, well I get to introduce Stevie. He wrote the introduction so if you really like it, it's an expert in improv and its application to the workplace Stevie Ray has been a nationally recognized keynote speaker and corporate trainer for over 35 years.

1:43 Stevie was the longest running national columnist for the Business Journal newspapers and is the author of 11 books including quick thinking for any situation. Stevie is the executive director of Stevie Ray's Improv Company, one of the longest running improv organizations in the United States. Stevie Ray, welcome to the Winning and Selling Podcast. Good morning everyone. Great to have you up. Nice to have you. So how let's start off. I always like to kind of get a little bit of that view. Now you've been doing this for 35 years but you had a path that took you to becoming a leader of an improv company.

2:17 What's the early path for Stevie? Like how far back do you want me to go? Well not to birth but yeah. Like, well, I'll try to make it as brief as possible because it's a convoluted story. I started out like wanting to be a teacher. Back when I was in high school. This might seem odd to some people but there was when I was in school, too many teachers, America so you weren't going to be able to get a job. There was a glut of teachers.

2:46 So I took one of those personality tests. And it was based on a flawed model so it's no longer in use today but it compared your daily interests with the daily interests of people who already had a job. So the theory was that if you share the same daily interests, you would share the same occupational desire. Pretty interesting theory but not very accurate. After I answered all the questions and the test came back, it said that I was a female physical education teacher.

3:21 And I thought, okay female physical, those are two things I suck at being. And I said, what's next? The second highest score I got was a match between priest and nun. Okay. And I thought, okay, whatever is next that is male and does not involve a vow of celibacy or poverty. I'm going to take a strong look at. And it said, speech therapy, speech pathology. So I booked a session with a clinician to see what the job was like. He said, you know, you'll love it. So I went off to school to become a speech pathologist.

4:01 Halfway through my junior year, I was seeing patients in a clinic, I was doing the work and I woke up one day and said, this is not what I want to do. I was made for my own schooling, so I was able to make my own choices. I read a very well-known book. I don't know if your followers have heard of the book, What Color is Your Parish? You both have heard of that? I got a couple of professors to help me design the program. We petitioned the University Board of Directors to accept it.

4:35 I was a student at the University of Michigan, and I was a student at the University of Michigan. I was a student at the University of Michigan, and I was a student at the University of Michigan. And I said, well, we'll see. I got a couple of professors to help me design the program. We petitioned the University Board of Directors to accept it as an accredited program. They made it a very difficult program because they said, you don't want one of our majors, you're going to work twice as hard.

5:06 So I graduated with a degree in theory and performance of comedy. I always loved all things comedic, improv, stand-up sketch comedy, character comedy, music, whatever. Have you ever done any of those before? Have you been on stage? Have you been on stage? Okay, so that was a part of your background already. Growing up, everybody said that he's the funny one. My parents behind my back told my siblings if he graduates with a degree in speech pathology, without switching to some form of entertainment, we'll die of shock.

5:42 It didn't tell me that because they didn't want to give me permission to do it. So after working at various clubs around the Twin Cities, after graduating, at the age 29, opened Stevie Ray's Improv Company with my co-directors and co-founders. Wow, that's a great story Stevie. And just for our listeners, I took Stevie Ray's class back in 2004. And I'm a bit of an introvert and when I'm a presenter, I get very intellectual.

6:16 And I needed to be able to work on engaging the audience and being able to facilitate more. And it's tough to do when you're an introvert. And I had a great instructor. What was her name, Stevie? Samantha Pereira. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And her instructing in your program, it really changed my life. I became a lot more relaxed and a lot more confident. So I may be a little biased when I promote you because I've been through the program.

6:42 And I know you've got classes starting, it looks like I'm looking at the website here coming up in September and October. And these classes are 215 bucks. I mean, what a great value for the amount of time. We try to keep things affordable. Very much. A bigger group Stevie. A typical class will be between 12 and 16. Oh, nice. Yeah. Pulls a great class number. Yeah, we don't let it go much bigger than that because we really want to give people a group feel with individual attention.

7:13 Yeah. Cool. And it works. I'm curious how improv and salespeople can really work together to really leverage some of the opportunities that salespeople have to have. Conversations that are unique, create interest and curiosity and really are memorable. Any tips that you can give our listeners to be able to build on that? Well, one of the biggest challenges facing, I think, any professional and salespeople in particular is you do have the same conversation 10,000 times.

7:42 And if you're leading the conversation as the sales professional, you know what you want to say. You know what points you want to make and you're all ready to go. And it's similar to when I was asked by a law firm to come and teach workshops for younger attorneys, the junior associates. And when I asked, what's the issue? They said, well, they're so well prepared to go into court and they have their legal pad full of notes and they're ready for their examination and cross examination.

8:17 It's called direct and cross. They're all ready to go. And the leaders of the law firm said, they're so ready and so overprepared that if the witness on the witness stand says something that could turn the case complete 180, the lawyer misses it. Because they're so focused on what they want to say. And so the quick thinking for the courtroom program was basically just listen and take advantage of everything the other person says to work it toward the best outcome.

8:53 Now in sales, it's different because the best outcome is the best outcome for both parties or all parties. So you have a good relationship and that kind of thing. So many sales people, they're ready to go. They don't want to be interrupted. They don't make it a conversation and they don't build on everything they hear. They respond to everything they hear. And that's the difference between regular conversation and improv technique.

9:22 Improv technique is designed to build the conversation one step at a time instead of waiting for them to get done talking so you can talk. Yeah, I think we see that quite often if if a person learns so much about the product that they're trying to talk about that they get anxious to talk about it instead of ask. And so they lose the interactivity. That's what we call is the interactive motion that you're trying to get the customer to tell you more rather than you tell the customer more.

9:53 And it's very easy to do that if you're so overloaded with facts and figures and details about your product. So how can we help people stay in that interactive mode that what they should be doing in their discovery instead of going to a pitch. One thing I would suggest, and this comes from I have an equal background in improvisational training, as well as the martial arts. I started you need it sometime when you're doing improv you need to protect yourself. Oh, believe me with some crowds it's good to have a black belt.

10:27 There's an old samurai phrase that says the more you sweat in practice the less you will bleed in battle. One of the biggest mistakes all professionals make is they wait for the next time to get better. They practice in front of a client they say oh the next call or the next meeting or whatever I'm going to remember to do x y and z. No you're waiting till the next time you're not sweating in practice you're bleeding in battle.

10:54 So practice practice with everybody you meet but don't practice selling. You practice listening. We are Stevie Ray's is a nonprofit arts organization in the Twin Cities because we are focused on growing new artists and also training people who need our help. So we have a board of directors. Many years ago one of my board members was a top salesman. He was in the corporate world. He was one of those guys that would win sales of the year.

11:28 No matter where he went one time he was hired into a company four months into the fiscal year. So with only eight months under his belt he's still one salesman of the year. Everybody circled around him after the award ceremony. All of the other sales professionals and said what's your secret how do you do it. One thing he said was you can never talk anybody into anything. You can listen them into it. So he spends most of his time with his mouth shut.

12:02 People would be shocked who people and Scott you might remember this. Yeah. When people take an improv class they usually think they're going to learn how to be funny. Right. Exactly. 90% of the work at the beginning level is listening skills. A lot of it is responding directly to what was said to you and building on what was just said to you. In the improv world many people are familiar with the phrase yes and. People in the corporate world hear the phrase yes and a lot.

12:36 A lot of them don't know. I think from the early days of improv when improv was first being developed in the. It started being developed in the modern age in the late 30s but really as a performance art in the late 50s. It wasn't going very well and the shows were hit and miss and the group. That was working on this they happen to be in St. Louis at the time. They were called the compass players. They were the forerunner to second city in Chicago.

13:11 They would sit around the kitchen table every night late at night two in the morning after the shows were done and talk. What worked what didn't what do we got to do we got to fix this. One night somebody said you know it seems to work better when we agree with each other rather than conflict with each other. So they created the rule of yes and which is a very specific process. It's not a yes and is not always agreeing with somebody.

13:41 The yes part means you acknowledge what was given to you. Whether you agree with it or think it's wrong you acknowledge it and build on it. How do you add the next layer so with sales people it's whatever you hear coming out of the other person's mouth. You have to first acknowledge it instead of just making your point you build on what they say. You can do that with everyday conversation. You can do that with family you can do that with a clerk at a store the teller at a bank.

14:11 Whatever they say you build on that is sweating in practice so you don't bleed in battle. Sales people's got my talk. Go ahead. I'm sorry Scott and I talk a lot about the small questions that you asked. We're so focused on the big question when a question like really. Yeah tell me more or how do you mean that can drive to that next layer of understanding but so often a sales person wants to. They gave me a great answer so now I'm going to tell them how my product ties into that need that they just expressed instead of saying.

14:48 Tell me more about that. How does that make you feel what happens when that happens. And so the yes and is another great qualifier to drive to appeal back that onion some more because it's the core of that onion that's going to make the sale. And a good sales person should have a balance between being a therapist and an investigator. Both investigative reporters and therapists always follow with questions. But tell me more part about it.

15:17 Right. And that's the listening of person into it by the time they're done talking they think you're a great person and they want to buy from you. Right. Any techniques that you can share with people on how to get out of your head and start to relax and not be so wound up when you get into those stressful situations and be more relaxed so that you can listen to what somebody is saying and you don't get worried about being embarrassed if you don't respond accordingly.

15:42 If people focus if they if people practice the yes and technique and I'm talking really practice it. That automatically gets you out of your head because if you're practicing yes and you can't be overthinking the two are counter to each other.

16:00 The yes and technique counters our most common reaction which is yeah but. If somebody says something we don't agree with we go well I can see how you might feel that way but. The thing about the word but is psychologist call it a psychological trigger word we've all heard trigger word before. Which basically means you have a reaction you have no control over. The problem with the word but is it's triggering effect on the human brain.

16:31 Whenever we hear the word but we do not remember what came before it. That it automatically just the word but or however wipe out memory before then we don't trust what comes after it. So if somebody says to me well I'm not sure this is going to fit our budget this year. If I yeah but that yes I can understand this is a little bit expensive but now I've just wiped out the fact that I understand this is going to fit our budget this year.

16:58 Now I've just wiped out the fact that I understand their problem. So I've done myself no good. What comes afterwards they're not listening. Because it's because the word but creates that reaction. I didn't really understand how pervasive this was until I started practicing this as an exercise in my workshops. I'll take somebody from the audience and I'll say you're just going to sit there and pretend you're an employee during a manager employee evaluation meeting.

17:32 And then I say to the whole audience I want you to say the word but out loud when you know I'm just about to say it. Because we've all heard the advice if you're going to say something negative start with a positive. Horrible advice because that always includes a but in the middle right and improv we call that a negation. A negation is using but or however or you know wiping out what you're really intending to say. So stay to the person.

18:02 Hey thanks for coming in for today's evaluation. I've been looking over your stuff here and all of your fellow workers really love your can do spirit. They love the fact that you come in every day just ready to go. Take the breath. At that moment the whole audience says but now here's where it really shocked me. I'll look at the person playing the game with me and I'll say what did I just get done saying. Eight times out of ten they will say.

18:35 You know what I don't remember. It was two seconds ago but the negation wiped it out. Yeah. So you have to use the yes part first. Then you add the connective words instead of but or however you use if and or so. If because yes and is only one phrase yes if. Oh you know you're right if we were to do that we would probably have a faster outcome. So now if I use the word so I am forcing my own brain to shift from reaction without thinking which is what but is to thoughtfulness so forces me to come up with the solution or a next step.

19:27 That that breaks me from being in my head and into my intellect. I have to come up with a solution if I say if that qualifies something. So why don't we try this and maybe we add this and that'll make it and that keeps things flowing. If people practice yes if yes and yes so when they're conversing with friends and family on a daily basis. Then doing it with a client is going to feel natural. Too many people wait to practice in front of a client.

20:02 I practice yes and with my wife. If we're in the middle of a disagreement. We know it's because she doesn't realize I'm right. I mean let's just put that out there. Not yet. She never will. I'm thinking. My father told me. My father told me Stevie. If you get into an argument with your wife and you find out your right. Apologize immediately. That's been pretty good. I've been married 42 years so I think that's working.

20:30 Well I want to say yeah but. I won one. I want to say yeah but. I want to say it. And then my better brain says no. You're the one who's supposed to be teaching this stuff. Try practicing it yourself. Yeah and to say yes and you're a dumb ass. Does it really. The mold. I think you've got. I think. That's my note. Yeah yes. And. Yeah I learned by these sessions. That's right. Well you know we're talking about language and how languages use this might be a curveball for you but something that I teach in presentation skills and also in this interactive between a sales person.

21:09 And that's weak words. We use a lot of weak words modifying words. Kinda maybe should a try. Sorta. Do you in your work talk about those at all is there ways to deal with that to try and get rid of those. Those weak qualifiers so we don't say anything harsh. Part of that comes from. The practice itself. That when I practice this stuff on a regular basis. I naturally move away from the weak the weakening words. Another.

21:43 Tenet of improvisation. Most people would not know this if they go watch an improv show for instance. It just looks like a bunch of people up there being funny. There are eight classic rules to improv that we train very hard on. One of the rules would surprise an audience to know and that is no questions. If I were to do an improv scene with Scott and he begins by going out and doing some activity. If I walk out and say.

22:13 So who are you. Well first of all that doesn't feel natural because we're supposed to look at each other and know who we are. Second if it's all the weight on Scott's shoulders. To provide the basis for what we're doing. So we're taught to make statements. When we practice making statements they have to be bold statements. What are you doing is weak. Kind of sort of is also weak. So we are taught to make a declarative statement.

22:43 If you're going to say something declare big. Instead of something weak like oh I see we're fishing. Instead it's oh my god. I finally got one it's been two hours. Not a declarative statement that gets things going now Scott can work off of that. In sales same thing. You have to give the other person something to work off of. And we can't work off of weakness. Work off of strength. So I had somebody call me who wanted to sell a service to my company.

23:23 And she said. I really believe in this. I I've looked into your company and I think it's a great fit. I really think it'll do you some good. And I just could not hang up. Because she believed it. Rather than all the other calls I get which are. You know I think this might be of good benefit for your organization. Maybe we should ought to try to start something. If that's okay with you. I always say that you know I think it's a little bit Minnesota and upper Midwest.

23:58 This willingness to modify everything. You know you don't see it on the coast as much. But but I always say that an outgoing Minnesota looks at your shoes while he's talking to you. I mean I tell the audiences that I work with don't be Lutheran today. So have a voice in the green room.

24:22 Stevie as we were getting ready we're talking about those declarative statements. And you were given Bill some great bill and I some great advice about when you begin a sentence know how to end it. Have you seen this problem a lot with people doing the declarative statements and not knowing how to land the plane after it takes off. Well I tell everybody I work with know how you're going to finish before you start. You have to know the last words that are going to come out of your mouth.

24:49 Or you have to feel it and you have to say to yourself. End it. Don't trail off. That shows just as much weakness as not having a declarative beginning. Was that in with a bang not a whimper. Yeah it's basically have something memorable. I was listening to a professional speaker who was working with beginning speakers and he said look at all the greatest speeches throughout history. They never end the way most people end speeches now most people just say thank you.

25:26 So to imagine. Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country. Thank you. Great talking to you. It's like what have an ending that's memorable. I think the other thing I see especially in presentations in sales is always end with a Q&A. And whatever the last question is that's the final statement and then you get the thank you. Instead of as you say having another close to say okay well I don't have time for more questions but here's what I want to leave you with.

26:03 Yes strong close strong buying process. Here's our next step whatever it is. But oh what is your product sucks so much. I don't think it does. Well thank you it's been really nice talking with you today. I mean my presentations are more interactive. So when I'm asked do I have a Q&A period. Well it happens throughout the entire. Great. Yeah great. Great advice. And I like it that way too because if somebody does have a question.

26:32 If you make them wait till the end to ask it. They're usually thinking about it during your entire presentation. Not really engaged or they forget it. Or they're working it up to really catch you. It's like I'm really working this question. I'm going to. No I'm not going to say it that way as you say they're not listening to thinking how they're going to really design the question to get you. So. Well you know that there's only three reasons people ask a question during any presentation and the least common is to gain information.

27:01 That has been tracked the least common is because they want to learn more from you the most common is they want to look smart. So they ask a question to point the finger them or the spotlight. The second most common is they don't like you and they want to make you look like a fool. Well how telling is it about America that the least common reason we talk is to gain knowledge. Well it's probably the human condition huh.

27:27 I would say so. Yeah. Yeah. Build up my own value rather than worry about learning more. Well one of the things that I got out of your classes it made me feel relaxed and more confident is there anything that our listeners can apply today. Using some improv skills or techniques to be able to build more confidence when they're in uncomfortable or unfamiliar situations that are talking to people that they don't know. Well one of the surprising things that I read recently in some research about the psychology of confidence is the fact that we used to think the brain was a computer that sat on the top of the body and controlled everything told the muscles what to do more and more we're learning about the

28:12 brain and how they path between muscles and brain. How your muscles move and how your body is positioned signal to the brain how to feel. So they put people in a test where they were told to sit and not think about anything not read anything not watch anything on TV but just to sit in different postures and there were brain scanning probes all over them. And that kind of thing when they were told to sit in a slumped posture the brain shifted to a more depressed attitude.

28:48 There was nothing going on to cause anxiety or worry it was just the posture when they were told to sit up straight and hold their posture upright. Their brain immediately shifted to confidence and awareness so how you hold yourself has an incredible impact on how you feel. So use what dancers are taught if you want good posture you don't think of your spine like you're told as a kid straight not you don't straight not good and lift your shoulders that's a military stance meant for something different dancers are taught lift your rib cage by a few inches. I practice trying to never sit with my back against the backrest of my chair when talking to another person.

29:40 If I'm just putzing around the office yeah I'll lean back when I'm talking to somebody else I move forward that forces me to lift my rib cage and my body tells my brain you're on it. How you move will affect how you feel then if you're in an uncomfortable situation shut up. Just ask more questions then we play games in improv that people can try on their own there's one I don't know if you remember this one Scott it's called last letter.

30:17 Okay, whatever you say has to begin with the last letter of what the other person said. So if Scott said welcome to the winning it selling podcast that ends with tea I have to start with this is a great way to start my day. So he has to say you know that there are and we keep playing that game. Yeah, that means you got to focus right listening for that last letter. And that keeps you sharp now I wouldn't do that. I do that for practice I don't do that in a real right right right right right.

30:58 You know important conversation right but if you do that with your family or friends that trains your brain to have a different kind of focus then just looking for outcomes right. One exercise that I do remember it was pushing buttons on an old radio car radio and could you describe that exercise I can't really get my arms around it Steve but how does that work. So in order to in improv classes in order to get people to be able to react quickly.

31:28 We'll tell them you're each going to be a different type of radio station and you're going to be the announcer on each of those stations so a line of people one is told you're a country station. And then you start talking then the director will point to someone else and the other person has to pick up where the first person left off continuing the story but in their style. We do this with putting people into different types of performance styles like romance movie or nonfiction novel you know that kind of thing where they have to continue what the other person said but in their style.

32:12 That forces you to listen and to create at the same time. So one of our more difficult exercises boy does it really. That's why Scott can't remember it. Probably probably hurt your feelings Scott. I can't get my hands around this. I can't do this. I can't do this. I can't do this. I can't do this. I can't do this. I can't do this. I can't do this. I can't do this. I can't do this. Oh it's real fun if we do it in a show and we have a line of people and we're pointing pointing pointing the audience is told if anybody stumbles you get to boo them off the stage.

32:49 Wow. Okay. They're looking for that opportunity. Yep. Oh they're waiting boy. What was the last time an audience was told we're waiting for you to boo. Yeah. Yeah. You know Scott and I were in an interview a couple days ago and I'm an integrator. I listen and then I kind of put the pieces together and project out. Scott is a great questioner and I felt it was so important to any asked hard questions. Right. Difficult questions.

33:21 Uncomfortable questions. Challenging questions. How can we improve to get more like Scott and ask those difficult things in an interview when we're kind of afraid of losing something more? I mean something more than gaining. Any exercises. Tell me more about that. Tell me more about what that looks like. Well let's just use budget for an example. Yeah. Almost most sales people don't want to talk about budget because they're afraid they'll say it's too low and then I don't know what to do.

33:53 And so they just avoid the question. Right. And so instead of saying well tell me do you have a ballpark figure for this. I'm always willing to do that and challenge the the even challenge if they say well it's $10,000 it says well you know then you don't want me to tell you about anything we could do that might go over $10,000 he asked really tough questions like that because he has the courage to do it. I don't always think about him because I'm integrating in a different way.

34:20 Okay. But a lot of sales people don't have the courage to ask those. There is a there's a theory in the art of persuasion well the science of persuasion really it's called the inoculation theory. When we want to avoid getting sick we inoculate ourselves with a little bit of the illness so we can become immune to it. If you wait for somebody else to say something and then you have to respond to that you're in a weaker position.

34:53 Because they said it first right the inoculation theory says if you say it first you remain in a position of power. So if you bring up something. And you know what their issue might be and say now let's talk about budget because a lot of people are concerned about this that and the other thing so what we've done. See how I reuse the word so in there. Blah blah blah. I'm inoculating myself against what they might say by me saying it first.

35:26 Now if you know what somebody's objection might be you have to bring out that objection. You see this in courtrooms all the time. If if the defense is bringing a witness on the stand and they know that the prosecutor is going to attack that witness for having lied on their taxes. Well the defense attorney will say by the way I understand that you lied on your taxes in 2002. The witness will say yes I did well let's talk about that now the prosecutor can't bring it up.

35:58 You did. Yeah so sales people have to do the same thing. One do your homework and that's something that in improv we talk about a lot. It's not just making it up on the spot. Improvisors do a lot of their homework. They know what the audience is going to say before they say it most of the time because they're very up on current events and things that are affecting the audience's mindset. Then doing your homework as a salesperson you know what the other person is going to say before they say it.

36:31 If you know that it's going to be a touchy thing you bring it up first. You and not going to inoculate yourself against that issue by you dealing with it. And that way it's not oh what happens if they bring it up. It's well I'm going to bring it up. It's interesting that you say that because in these situations that we find ourselves in and Scott asked a difficult question. I can see the client struggling a little bit in surprise that we would ask that bold question and now they feel compelled to answer it.

37:03 And usually because they weren't ready for it they give us an honest answer. Yeah most people are surprised into honesty. I know you have a final question which you can run out of time and it's been terrific. I tell you Stevie I really love this idea of practicing family friends. Practice courageous questions practice the yes and or the yes so. Practice the way that you're going to work with your clients in when it's when it's not going to matter.

37:34 And I want to build on that bill the yes and and the inoculation on the objection Stevie powerful advice for our sales people. I think everybody that is out there selling is dealing with those challenges. And I think you really gave our listeners some great advice in that area. So thank you for that. My final question is I ask all of our guests this question is what book or person has had the greatest impact on your life other than what colors your parachute.

38:00 Oh my God. What. No, man, no one book has because I read constantly. Yeah. You know, honestly, this is going to sound very trite, but the combination of both my mother and father. Because they were. They're from the traditionalist generation, you know, the greatest generation, the silent generation, whatever you want to call it. They taught the concept of it's a martial arts philosophy called 1000 punches a day. Mm hmm.

38:38 Is you when I was first starting my martial arts training, my instructor said you have to practice 1000 punches every day. And I said, the punch is the easiest technique. There is why would I have to practice that. And he said, because if you get a tack, then you're going to have to respond. And it's going to be the quick thing. Boom. And he said, all those fancy techniques, you're not going to remember them. You're going to do the thing you practice the most and you want to have practiced it so much that it becomes muscle memory.

39:11 Boom, boom, boom, boom, right there. So practice that every single day. I saw my parents get up and go to work every single day. They practice paying attention to each other every single day. And they didn't wait until a moment for that. So I just say 1000 punches a day for sales. Is he practice the simplest technique 1000 times a day and don't go for the fancy stuff. Then you're going to have success. Wow. Wow. That's great advice.

39:44 Thank you for joining us. This is wonderful. Yeah, this was great. Welcome back. Anytime Scott, you got a resource for Stevie. I'll have Stevie's website and our show notes and it's Stevie. Raise with an S dot org. So check it out. If you're within an hour of Chanhass in Minnesota, I think you should really seriously look at taking one of Stevie's classes. Commit the time. Commit the budget and it'll change your life.

40:11 So our golden nugget today is when you're in a sales pitch. Think of it as an improv scene. The audience is the client is waiting for you to make them look good. And that is one of Stevie's race quotes from his book. Can you give us some context about that quote Stevie? Basically, the audience always wants you to succeed. And so does your client. Yeah. They want you to do well because that's the only time they're going to have an enjoyable experience.

40:42 So even if a client feels like they may be a little contentious. They want a positive interaction because that's how everybody wants to spend their day. So if we remind ourselves, everybody around me wants me to succeed because it helps them have a good day kind of takes the pressure off. Yeah, it's a rare person that really is mean. Most people are just nice, you know, and they just want to do, especially in an audience.

41:08 They want you to do well. So all this information is at winning at selling dot com. You might have to put the three W's in. This is episode 681. And our next episode is going to be titled You Are Not Being Tested. And again, the book, The Power of Purpose by Mitch Larson, we're going to be covering chapters four. So please subscribe and share this podcast with your colleagues and on your social media networks. We'd be grateful for a five star review and post a favorable comment.

41:35 If not favorable, please tell us directly. Go out and get better one skill at a time. Joyful selling.