You Are Not Being Tested

0:04 Thank you for joining us on the Winning and Selling podcast. I'm Bill Hellkamp of Reach Development Systems, and with me is Professor Scott Plum of the Minnesota Sales Institute, and together we have found in Franchise Sales Pro, with a commitment to work with franchise owners and franchisees to drive sales and boost revenue. Many salespeople think they're in a test every time they meet a prospect, measuring on how much they know and how perfectly they can present.

0:28 But selling isn't about passing a test. It's about uncovering what matters most to the prospect. In this episode, we'll look at how shifting from proving yourself to understanding them can change the conversation and your results. So listen up and keep your eyes on the road as Bill and I cram for you're not being tested and other intriguing ideas on Episode 682 of the Winning and Selling podcast. Well, I can't wait to hear more about this topic from you Scott.

0:59 Scott always thinks he's being tested. That was a question was a test. Exactly it. I know. I know. So I think this is from deep within you Scott. This is a way to say this for group. Wait until a couple of weeks when we talk about leave your mother on the bus. Yeah, well that has a whole other meaning too. That's what we'll talk about that then. Before we get into all these topics, we're going to talk about the book Club, The Power of Purpose, by Mitch Larson, Chapter 4, Obstacles to Accomplishing Your Purpose.

1:31 I really like this chapter Scott because I do think there's a lot of barriers in our way. He talked about some of them last week, but I think he talks about fear a lot in this. And use the acronym, fear false evidence appearing real, which I've always liked that week. We are afraid of things that don't happen. I remember reading in Carnegie. Take whatever you're worrying about, write it down on a piece of paper and put it in the envelope and stick it in your desk and then look at it two weeks later and see if all your fears, all your worries, did they come true or did they just kind of work themselves out or you were able to do something different?

2:08 So we are afraid of things and people who are very successful, they look back at us and they say, why don't you just do it? Mm-hmm. Right? So when this he talks about five different fears and Scott, if you want to comment on any of these, fear of failure, that fear that says, I'm not going to do this because I might fail. I remember reading a John Maxwell book on that, failing forward. Isn't that the name of it? One of the great books of just having the guts to be able to do it.

2:38 And you get outcomes. It's not failure, it's lessons. Talk to any great sales person and they'll tell you, I failed a lot more than I succeeded. Exactly. Because I was willing to fail more than I hit those successes. I think we see that in phone calling. Oh, I don't want to make phone calls because I might only get hold of one person out of ten. Okay? Right. Well, the guy that's going to sit down or the gal's going to sit down and do 30 phone calls, they're going to get those three conversations going.

3:02 So the fear of rejection, I think this is one that I deal with a little bit. People making fun of you or thinking that you're dumb or crazy or what you said was stupid. But that fear of rejection that people are going to tell us no. Right? So we start with no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And we get afraid of no. Yeah. I think sometimes it's the fear of embarrassment too. Embarrassment is just being caught out of role.

3:28 So when somebody thinks of you and you act differently from what they think of you, you're acting out of that role and you may be embarrassed by that. You may not. Yeah. Well, we're going to talk about the comfort zone here a little bit later. So it has a lot to do with that rejection and as you talk about. The third one, the fear of what others think. That's kind of a mix there. Mm hmm. You're talking about what others think.

3:48 Do we care too much about what others think? I always like the saying, you know, you'd be surprised at how little others do think. Right. That's true. The fourth one, the fear of public speaking. I'll tell you, I deal with this one a lot. I do teach public speaking and have for years and the fear is very real for people. I like, I think Seinfeld said, if you're at a funeral and you'd rather be in the coffin, than doing the eulogy because people are more afraid of public speaking than death.

4:20 Yeah. And the final one is fear of change. And I don't think I have a fear of change, but I'm a delayed changer. Mm hmm. I don't like to be surprised by things and I will react negatively to a surprise change. And I think that I need to be given a forewarning of that. How are you going to change? I totally agree with you, Bill. I love schedule change. If somebody tells me today, do something today, I kind of laid out my day already, conceptually, behaviorally, logistically.

4:52 But if they say tomorrow, do this. Well, okay, well, I will wake up in the morning and I will commit to doing that tomorrow. So I need to schedule change and be able to prepare for it. I'm the same way. I don't like surprise on changes. Yeah. I have a driving helper. You don't get this as a single guy, but I have a driving helper. You should turn there. You know, it's like, okay, a little more warning. Yeah, exactly. And when we passed the exit or maybe you're not thinking, how about asking me, do you want to go this way?

5:19 Right. Yeah. Making this decision. And now I have to think differently about what's going on here. So anyway, okay. The next section he goes into after the fears is doubt versus belief, which has a lot to do with fears. And he goes into some of the questions he likes to ask in this. So his first question is when did doubt hold you back? What specifically were your doubts? I think anytime I try something new or difficult, I have a doubt.

5:47 And I, you know, I've trained myself to say out loud, you can do it. You can do it. This is okay. You can handle it. But in the back of my mind, I can still hear that voice saying you're not going to do it well or you're an idiot. Right. So that denial, that's why I have to say things out loud that can be a little bit loud. I have to kind of crush out that negative tendency in the back of my mind. Mm hmm. And I think when we try something new, we don't necessarily have the support that we get or want with a bigger company or a bigger team.

6:17 So we don't know where we are all the time. And if we fail, we don't know how bad we're going to fail. How bad it's going to be. You mean because you're not with a large company? Yeah. Just doubting yourself. You don't have that confidence, that reinforcement, that support, that encouragement. I think sometimes when we're in a team and we're trying to accomplish something new, there's a certain amount of peer pressure that people commit to doing something and they don't want to be showing up as being a failure or trying something new and it doesn't work.

6:44 Right. Well, none of us likes to fail. And I said, if you're a failure. So his next question, following up on that, how does preparation impact your confidence? And you know, we've talked about preparation in the sales process a lot. I'm a big advocate in preparing your questions. You're a big advocate of learning a little bit more about that client before you walk through the door. So you're not surprised by anything that you see or hear.

7:08 So I like to be prepared when going into any kind of a meeting or a challenging situation. If I can write out some questions, I feel more prepared. I like to think through what the questions they might ask me. Right. What are they going to ask me? And I want to have a coherent answer. I'm always surprised by people saying, boy, I always get this objection. I'm like, if you're always getting that objection, maybe you ought to think about what you're saying.

7:33 Are you causing that objection? Or are you not prepared to deal with it? It's going to be one that's going to come up. Don't you have a good answer yet? After five years of doing this? Yeah. Preparation does help my confidence. I need to be prepared. I had a buddy of mine I used to work with and he could go into a speaking situation with nothing and just do an hour and a half. And I couldn't do that. I had my I like my documentation and my my workbook.

7:58 So yeah, that's that's kind of the strength of experience. I in preparing for a presentation and adding confidence, I like to be able to look at it and ideal outcome. What do I want to accomplish and then pick a path to get there when working with the prospect, you know, what do I want them to know about the decision that they're making? What do I want them to know about me or the options and also including the pros and cons?

8:21 I love the technique of reactants, which is stating what you need to state, asking the question that, you know, they need to consider and then stepping back and say, you know, at the end, it's completely up to you on whatever you want to do it. When you step back from that and you don't have that pressure and you're leaving them with this decision that make after you gave them all this information, they end up feeling a little bit pressured going, wow, they were really helpful.

8:43 They really I can't think of anything that they didn't include. I've ready to make a decision now. Yeah. So again, preparation then helps you. Yeah. Be all confident. On page 72 of the book, he has a diagram about what's out of my control. It's in my control. He's talking about dealing with an overcoming anxiety in any situation. And I really like this diagram. It's kind of a comfort zone sort of thing, but in my control, how I think, how I spend my time, how I treat others, how I respond, do you like to talk about responding versus reacting out of my control?

9:20 What other people say to me? How other people react to something that I say? The other people's opinions. Well, I'll tell you, if we worry too much about other people's opinions, we'll never gain anything. All right. I think a lot of us do, right? And the internet has made that worse. You know, I see these people. I can't go for a walk. Everybody I see walking has their nose and their phone. What are they doing? Wow. Yeah.

9:48 I think a walk. Yeah. You know, do you have to be and then all this thing about likes. I said something, how many people liked what I said and you can feel that peer pressure. I've noticed that none of my kids ever liked what I say on our text. They don't let it be associated with you or their not going to. So I don't know. I don't know what it is. Maybe I'm just not as funny as I think I am, but you know, do you let that worry you?

10:12 Are you concerned? But there's a lot of people out there that are so worried about the likes that they get. So what's in your control and what's out of your control? And are you trying to manipulate things so other people like you instead of just being who you are? Mm-hmm. It's amazing how they don't post that adversity on Facebook. They always post all the great things that they're going through and all the great things that are happening and the great meals that they're having.

10:37 Right. Right. The fact that my kids on drugs and the failing third grade. Yeah. I'm not going to mention that. So I do think that that's a challenge that we put up this facade. I always heard, you know, it's not what happens outside the house. It's what's happening in the house. That's important. And we kind of see the outside of people's houses, but we don't see the inside. So anyway, he talked about adversity. So he says, his questions reflect on a recent adversity you faced.

11:08 How did your attitude affect the outcome? I was thinking of the convention we went to about a month ago now. And I got sick in the middle of it. And I mean, I just, I mean, I just could, it felt lousy. I was getting cold, couldn't stay warm. But I had to stay upbeat when I was talking to others. And I remember there was a movie once where the guy was all crazy and drugged out, but he'd slapped himself in the face and go, Showtime.

11:33 Yeah. I just kept thinking about that. It's Showtime when I, you know, how can I talk to these people? And then when it was done, I said, Scott, I'm not coming back tomorrow. I went home and I slept 14 hours, man. But I had to get through that day and thinking about overcoming that sickness with good attitude was really helpful. Right. Right. For me, I feel like adversity is daily. I always think about, you know, the impact of adversity in my life.

12:03 And I consider what other areas, if I'm experiencing adversity in work, was that going to affect my personal life or vice versa? And then how long is it going to last? How long am I going to let this adversity control my attitude and outlook and optimism? And when I intellectualize that, I'm able to start to control it better than letting it control me and think that this is going to last forever and I'm doomed. It can be very easy to surrender to adversity.

12:27 I think about COVID and this, this illustration about what we can control and what we cannot control. I remember an illustration on what's important and what matters most versus what we can control and what we cannot control. And that's where things became very simple as to how we spend our time and how we manage our anxiety. Next week, the power purpose, a guide to discover yours, we're going to be into chapter five.

12:48 So this is a good book, but only if you're taking the time to think about these questions, because it's only by thinking about them and writing down an honest answer, are you going to grow up a little bit? Yeah. Yeah. So you're at this point, if you're at this point in your life, then consider this as a good book and a good project to have an inward journey. Our topic today is you are not being tested. And this topic came from a true story, a coaching engagement that I had.

13:19 And I'm going to tell the story in two different parts. I'm going to open it up with the beginning of the story and then I'm going to cover five points that I'm going to carry out the rest of the story. So for those of you, there's old as I am, he thinks he's Paul Harvey. Paul Harvey. Paul Harvey. The rest of the story. So I was working with this young man, let's call him Paul, and he was working at a second hand exercise equipment store.

13:42 And in nine months, he had worked there. He had never made his quota. And if you don't make your quota within one year, then you get terminated. And I started off by saying, you know, tell me what a normal day is. He said, well, I'm working in the store. And I had a couple come in the other day and we're looking for a treadmill. And I walked him over to the treadmill and I asked him to get on the treadmill. And I pointed out all the features and the benefits.

14:04 And they said, you know, how much is it? And I said, it's $1,800. And they said, oh, could you write that down on the back of a business card and with your contact information? And you know, I'll think about it and I'll get back. Yeah. I said, well, that's promising. They have the price, they have your card, they have your phone number. I'm supposed to call you back the next day. And he says, no, I never hear from him again.

14:24 Oh, stay tuned for how the story ends. But I want to cover five things that can make this situation a little bit easier, a little bit better and a little bit more prosperous for the salesperson. So number one is sometimes salespeople, there was a misconception with being tested. So many salespeople engage with others believing that they must impress them by reciting product features and benefits. And this creates a pressure and anxiety to perform for their approval.

14:53 It's a mindset of I need to perform in front of them and get their approval. And one of the biggest weaknesses of salespeople is to start with is a high need for approval. It also creates a reality that the prospects aren't grading you. They're deciding if they can trust you and if you can solve their problems. So that's what they're really thinking about is, can I trust you and can you solve my problem? You're not being tested.

15:15 So a new salesperson trained extensively on product specs fails to connect because they never uncover what the customer actually wants. So ask yourself, do prospects really want to know everything that you know and do they really know what they want and what they need? And I would say no, they don't really know all of the options. You are the salesperson that knows what's most relevant to them. It's not everything that you know, it's what's most important to them.

15:47 So consider two different questions to ask yourself. When was the last time you felt like you were on trial in front of a buyer or a prospect? And how might that belief have shaped the way you listen or didn't listen? And this is the beginning of really understanding what's most important when you were push a prospect or a customer is. Yeah, I used to think about this as having to be the shell answer man. Oh, yeah. Remember the shell answer man had to answer every question about your car.

16:16 You had to know everything and that was supposed to be some kind of a great thing that I knew everything. But you and I were in a meeting the other day talking to some salespeople and one of the points we made was sometimes it's easier to be a new salesperson doesn't know anything because then you can't download everything you know to them and you have to ask questions. Instead, the more you know, the worse you get at this, don't you?

16:39 Okay, let me show you how smart I am by telling you everything about this treadmill. And when you you know it's old when you hear something you like stop me. Yeah, exactly. We could ever stop the salesperson that's rambling on. Right. Right. They've memorized all this stuff and by goodness we're going to share it all because we've learned it all. Well, as you said, so much of our first two weeks is product knowledge. Mm hmm.

17:04 It's being taught that we start to believe inside of ourselves that that must be the way you sell because they spent so much time talking about product knowledge. And if I download this product knowledge on the on the prospect, then that will make the sale because that's what I've really kind of been taught. Mm hmm. Right. Right. I mean, we instill that when we onboard people and there's there's just a real mismatch of priorities when it comes to sales.

17:29 When I'm working with a company and onboarding a salesperson on that Monday, I get them at about nine, ten o'clock. I said two o'clock, we're going to start making calls and setting appointments for three weeks from now. They're like, what? I don't know anything. And now in three weeks from now, and you're going to learn what you need to know by that time. So it has an end and an action step of selling then starts to begin.

17:50 So number two is shifting from features to discovery. So the core insight is selling starts with understanding, not telling. So questions will uncover the buyer's expectations, their experiences and their frustrations. When you lead with curiosity, your credibility grows naturally. And here's an example. Instead of asking every detail of a particular product, ask, what have you found that works well? What's missing? How long have you been looking to solve this?

18:19 And then consider, are you spending more time explaining or exploring in your sales calls? Well, that's a great that's a great line. I love spending more time explaining or exploring. Yeah, exactly. And then also, how do you currently discover the buyer's true motivation and build an I have talked a lot about motivation. We did an episode on motivation. And that's the emotional action is why are they doing this? Why are they doing this now?

18:48 And a great example that using your treadmill example is you say, why do you want to buy a treadmill? Mm hmm. Well, I've got a wedding coming up in three months and I need to lose a lot of weight and I can't get to the club. Mm hmm. So now you've not only got a reason, but you've got a reason that they need to buy today. You've got a deadline. Yeah. And you, you, before, oh, I'll take my card and I'll think about it. No, you better get going tomorrow.

19:13 We'll get that set up for you and you could start working out right away because you've only got three months. Three weeks or three months. Three months. What a crap. Three weeks is a deadline. Exactly. Just don't eat for three weeks. That's your own weather. Exactly. Pray for food poisoning and you'll lose in pounds. Bad. But I think you're right. You've got to find that motivation. People only buy because they have a reason to buy.

19:39 And if they don't, if they don't reveal it to you, they may not even understand it themselves. Right. Right. Boy, it's amazing when a prospect says something, how truthful it is, when they really, truly believe it. And when you ask a question and they have to reflect and they have to answer honestly, they're talking to themselves and they're sharing it with you. You're overhearing it. But every conversation starts with yourselves and sometimes involves others.

20:03 Number three, moving on to the power of probing questions. So the premise is great questions guide the prospects to articulate needs of their own words in their own words. What are they needing? How are they describing it? How do they picture it? How do they describe it? And when they paint a picture in your mind, you can kind of see what their expectations are and ask questions accordingly. So what are your expectations?

20:24 What are they expecting? Where have they been looking? You know, what have they found? What have they not found? And why haven't they purchased something already? So when you're asking these probing questions, you're trying to get some context about where they are in this whole process. And an example could be that a prospect says that they've seen plenty of options but haven't moved forward revealing that there's a fear of implementation, headaches, and maybe there's some fear of change disruption more than the cost of making a purchase and buying an $1,800 treadmill.

20:58 What is that going to change? How is that going to impact me? What's the implementation? What do I have to do different? So think about which of these questions could add more to your next conversation and what's the most surprising answer that you've received from a good question? Think about what are those good questions that you've asked that you've received some great answers from? Well, I think one of the things too is if we don't narrow down the scope of the features and what they want, we're going to talk about everything.

21:25 They're going to look at that treadmill. Let's use that example. Yeah. Oh, man, that's got so many features. It's too complex or it has a lot of features that I don't need. So it must be more expensive. Show me one that's a little bit cheaper that doesn't have all these features. And they all have all these features, right? So you're just not going to help them. You confuse them by talking about things that aren't important to them.

21:48 You want to get the yes, yes, yes, I agree, I agree, I agree. And when you talk about a feature, they don't want or need, then they shrug their shoulders and they're confused. And what does a confused buyer do? They don't buy. Yeah, they don't buy. They don't become a buyer. Right, right. Yeah, exactly. And we share stuff that has no value to them. I mean, it's just like, let's get this over with. And they've already lost interest.

22:11 So you've lost them. Yeah, good point. Yeah, exactly. Number four, building confidence through understanding. So it's a core insight is that you earn respect and confidence by aligning with the prospects, needs and values, not by proving your product knowledge. Listening first positions you as a partner, not an offender, and understanding reduces your anxiety. And while you guide the buyer as to what they've said and what you've heard.

22:40 So when that anxiety goes up, the listening goes down. When stress goes up, creativity goes down. So think about a rep who drops their script and asks about the buyer's current challenges, up closing the deal without ever using a slide deck. So a couple of questions to consider is how does this approach change when you feel you're there to work with a buyer, not impress them? I think about what Stevie Ray said last week.

23:07 Instead of saying yes, but say yes and and build on that conversation and really work with them on their answers and your questions and yes and and amazing what you can build. That was such a great technique that Stevie Ray shared with us last week. Yeah, this whole thing reminds me of a situation my wife and I were looking for a new kitchen appliances. We went into his story. He said, you got to see this great new refrigerator has a computer in it.

23:32 And it does all these things that my wife said, the last thing in the world I want is refrigerated with a computer in it. Right. He said, you just don't understand how good this is. Yeah. Right. The refrigerator with a computer in it. And my wife said, thank you very much. And we turned around and walked out. He didn't get me further. He didn't listen. He wanted to be smart and show us how stupid we were. Right. And I just think this is so important to think about that buyer, find out their motivation.

24:06 When they tell you something, put it into your memory bank and use it. Don't tell them they're wrong for wanting it that way. And if you do a good job in that area and you've asked great questions and you've heard three to five responses about what's most important to the prospect, ask the prospect to rank them. So we've talked about three to five things. Tell me what's most important. What's second? What's third? Now you've created a syntax and an order and a prioritization that they're going to be buying based on what the number one priority that they have.

24:40 That's what you can say. I found the perfect treadmill for you. Yep. And you take them to that one and you show them how it ties into what they said was important. Mm-hmm. Could be a real estate agent working with a buyer on a house. What's most important? I'm just using a treadmill example, but it could be anything. Right. I mean, I want a big backyard with a fence and okay, well, we'll look for that and that may carry everything else.

25:04 That may overcome all of the other different drawbacks or distractions within the house that they don't like, but they got that number one one and that's what made the decision. So moving on to number five is from insight to action. So here's the premise, shifting your mindset to step one, practicing in private, we'll seal the habit. We talked about this a few weeks ago about our beliefs drive our execution. If you believe your value lies in discovery, you'll listen and act accordingly.

25:33 So start by replacing one feature pitch with one probing question on your next sales call. Then they consider what's the first change you'll make in your discovery conversation? And if you believe the buyer's needs mattered more than your demonstration or presentation, how will you act differently tomorrow? So think about who you want to be, how you want to act. Think about the behaviors that you're going to implement and how that's going to change the conversation tomorrow about what's most important to them instead of the features and benefits that you would buy the product on.

26:10 It doesn't matter what you think is true. They buy for their reasons, not yours. Yeah, it's this intentionality that says I'm going to go out and change something tomorrow. I'm going to try that one question. I'm going to try something a little different. You have to practice it and prepare for it. It's not going to happen because you hope it's going to happen or because you listen to this podcast one time. You need to sit down and write out a few questions so that you say, okay, when I get together with my next client, I'm going to ask a couple of these questions.

26:36 Yeah. Isn't it amazing how sometimes when we prepare a lot of questions, we start building our own anxiety. Like, oh, I got to get through all these questions. These questions are guides. And if we can, you know, increase our creativity by being prepared, we will reduce our stress. If we're prepared when there's those awkward situations that come up where we want to keep the conversation going on, what's most important, we've got our prepared questions to ask.

27:03 And it's amazing how they will create other questions for us to consider asking our prospect when we get to that point. But if we never get to that point of asking them the right questions at the right time, that's going to make the decision work in their favor and ours, we're going to be dropping the ball and we're not going to be able to complete that sale like we want to and what our goal is. So I will close with finishing up with the treadmill shopper story.

27:29 So after I worked with Paul, I said, let's do things a little bit different. So when they come into the store, ask them, what made you decide to try buy a treadmill? Why not a bike or an elliptical or a rower? I mean, why a treadmill? You know, how long have you been looking? And what's missing from what you've seen? So you've been looking for six weeks or six months. You know, where have you gone? What have you seen?

27:54 What doesn't it have that you want? And then when they get on the treadmill and you start cranking it up to five and a half and you start giving them a two percent incline or a three percent incline and they start sweating a little bit and you know, they're really getting into it and they're like, wow, this is work. And then you slow it down and then they say to you, you know, what's the price? You can say to them, oh, you mean the cost?

28:15 The cost is a heart attack. The price is $1,800. Now granted, they're huffing and puffing and they're sweating and then you can ask them, what would you rather pay? Having a heart attack or $1,800 bucks to get on this treadmill later this week. And that's when the sales person that I was working with Paul made his quota after nine months and he ended up getting promoted and running a store in another city. So changing our perspective of you're not being tested and Paul was a graduate from a state university with a physiology degree.

28:47 He was about 24 years old. He had all the product knowledge you could imagine and master in that role. But he used it in a way that was not effective on influencing the outcome and selling people on what they want and what they're looking for. And that's the goal of a salesperson is to guide them to what salespeople or what prospects are looking for. And now you know the rest of the story. All right, good job, Scott. I think you're really good.

29:16 And you've got this as a post. Yeah. So go to our go to the show page and you'll be able to look up a file called tested. Yeah, you can read a little bit more about this. Our golden nugget today is from Charles Kettering who is an inventor. Believe and act as if it were impossible to fail. Wow. Building off of the book that we've been reading. So act. Believe and act. Believe comes first. I can't remember who said it, but you won't get everything you believe you'll get, but you won't get anything unless you believe you will.

29:53 All right. All right. Everything we talked about will be at winning at selling dot com. So the show notes will be there. Next week, the book club, The Power Purpose, a guide to discover yours chapter five. And our topic is what buyers really want. Please subscribe and share the podcast with your colleagues and on your social media. If you're so inclined, give us a five star review. This is episode 682. Go out and get better one skill at a time.

30:23 Joyful selling.