What Buyers Really Want

0:04 Thank you for joining us on the Winning and Selling Podcast. I'm Professor Scott Plumb of the Minnesota Sales Institute and with me is Bill Hellkamp of Reach Development Systems. And together, we have founded Franchise Sales Pro with the commitment to work with franchise owners and franchisees to drive sales and boost revenue. Sales isn't about tricks or scripts, it's about understanding people. When you sell with empathy, clarity and respect, you don't just win deals, you build trust, loyalty and long-term relationships. The question is, how do you accomplish that?

0:37 So put on your empathy hat as Scott and I discover what buyers really want and other ridiculous ramblings on episode 683 of the Winning and Selling Podcast. I'm confident this is going to be a great topic, Bill. I saw this group get some great questions and create some inspired friction as I like to say. Before we get into that, we're doing the book The Power Purpose by Mitch Larson. We're covering chapter 5 today. And the title of this chapter is The Importance of Attitude. He starts off with really saying three things about attitude.

1:13 And one is, first, you only get one. So let's make the most of it. I never thought about that, but he's so true. You only have one attitude, so let's try to make it as good as it possibly can be. The second one is, life moves in one direction and that's forward. So let's stop looking in the past and let's start thinking about what's going on in the future and how we can work on improving or developing and reinforcing a good positive attitude.

1:40 I've seen a lot of people say, just rip out that review mirror of life. Oh yeah, don't look behind. It's too late. That's Bill Milke. Sometimes there's some history you can learn from, but it just matters on how you're dwelling on it. Learn from it and then you leave it. Yes. You don't learn from it over and over again and beat yourself up. I love debriefing. Debriefing in an appointment, a sales call, a conversation, whatever.

2:07 And learning from it and applying those lessons in the future makes a big, big difference. I think that's valuable, but I think a lot of people keep reliving the same one. They do. Wow. I learned the word the other day and it's a continuum biased. So you're so committed to something that you continue to strive forward, regardless of all the evidence that you might want to reconsider another option. And some people just get locked in too tight and they just don't explore the options when they present themselves.

2:39 And the last point he makes is the key to having a good attitude is really changing your position from problem solving to looking at problem solving as a gift. And to look at those opportunities where you may be a little bit challenged and you may become a little bit stronger through adversity too. All right. So he opens up with why your thoughts matter and he put together a nice flow chart. Those of you that have the book can see it, but it's pretty easy to visualize too.

3:07 It starts with thoughts, arrow to actions, arrow to habits, arrow to character. And one thing that I saw was missing in this is feelings. And sometimes feelings have an impact. And we're going to talk about empathy later, but how does empathy and feelings fit into this flow chart bill? Where do you see it being a step where people would manage feelings in this process? I think you manage it in your thoughts. You start by managing your thoughts and those thoughts can control the feelings.

3:39 You need to take control of your thoughts. And that's what he talks about. You can't just let feelings overwhelm you because feelings are part of fear. False evidence appearing real. Your feelings, you know, the world doesn't care about your feelings. We're spending too much time with people worrying about their feelings and looking for a safe space. Control your thoughts. Control what you're thinking about and then you will start to control your feelings.

4:06 And your feelings will get better if you start taking action. That's the same with fear. Fear is destroyed by one thing and that's action. I've heard some great lines in that from the greatest salesman in the world,

4:20 Aug Man Dino talks about dealing with procrastination, is dealing with fear and action overcomes procrastination and fear. It's action, taking action. So I think about the quote.

4:32 I thought it was Napoleon Hill I looked it up before the show, but it's actually Earl Nengale. I love his stuff. You know, the strangest secret, lead the field. I mean, these are all from I think 60s, 70s, 80s. And he says, you know, you become what you think about most. And I don't know about that. I'd have become a beer or a girl in high school. So well, it's all I'm going to think about quality things in high school.

4:58 So what we're constantly processing on in our mind, that sort of that time default is what do we do when we don't have something scheduled? What do we think about when we're not worrying about something or it's trying to strategically build something is what are we thinking about? And there's another great quote in the book.

5:17 He says, are the people in my life lifting me up, helping me grow and develop? Or are they pulling me down and having a negative impact on my life, adding no value? And I really love this flow chart because the last step of it is character. So if you think about your thoughts and your actions and what habits you're building, it's going to define your character and your character is going to be able to define, I think your reputation.

5:42 Are you working on building people up or are you trying to take joy out of their life when that's all they have? And that's it. I think this question has two sides to it. Are you surrounding yourself with people who pull you down? A lot of time that's family, by the way.

5:56 I'll tell a quick story about that in a moment. But the other side is, are you the type of person that is building other people up? Or are you the type of person that is making fun of them, laughing at them, kind of making light of what's something that they're doing that's, you know, again, we talked about this a while ago, but Samson slew a thousand people with a jaw bones of an ass and many good ideas have been killed by the same weapon.

6:24 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very true. Very true. And we'll talk a little bit about that in our first question. I took two questions out of the chapter. And the first one is, how can you be more intentional about surrounding yourself with people who uplift and encourage your development, right down three specific actions you can take to cultivate this type of association? My answer to this question is, I'm going to assume that you've decided who you want to be.

6:50 So you've really contemplated the type of person that you want to be. So the first step for me would be find groups of those people. I'm really grateful for you leading PSA bill through all of the adversity of COVID professional sales association. I was a president from 2011 to 14 and you've been a lot longer than I have. And I'm really grateful for that group and those people that show up every single month. It's like my closest group of friends in a professional environment of those people at PSA.

7:20 NSA National Speakers Association. You and I are both involved in SCGC, Small Emerging Growth Company. We've done some ATD meetings. And then there's other groups, Rotary, Optimists. So find groups of those people that you want to hang around with. Great information. Within the groups that you have, ask if some of the people in your groups are part of those organizations. And what other organizations they are a part of.

7:45 If you want to hang around somebody that you want to learn from, find out what inputs they have in their life and focus on that. And then the last one is when you go to those meetings, show up, introduce yourself because everybody's there for the same reason and that's the builder network and to get to know everybody else. And I think one other thing is where you live can have an awful lot of influence on the type of people you're living around.

8:10 And I think you have to make a decision sometimes to say I want to live around higher quality people, people who take care of their homes, take care of their yards, don't have five cars in the front driveway on blocks. It makes you aspire to a greater thing.

8:28 If you can't afford that now, spend time maybe driving around and aspiring to better things. I know you tell the story of going around Lake Minnetonka and somebody said, I can't imagine living in a house like that. We'll go around to better neighborhoods and imagine that. Lift yourself up. Lift your own aspirations up to a greater thing. Get rid of people who are destroying you.

8:52 And so my father-in-law, when I was starting out, my father-in-law had worked for Caterpillar tractor for 40 years and that's what his experience was. You worked for one company and you devote your life to it. That's not reality anymore. And I had had two or three jobs and then I started my own business and my father-in-law was making fun of my business and that I was a flake that I couldn't keep a job. And I said, Jack, if you want to see me and the grandkids, you'll stop this.

9:20 Because this is my future and you're not going to destroy it because it's different from your past. And he did. But I had to be firm with him and say, I'm not going to take this from you. If you want us to come around, then you're going to have to change your ways. I'm not changing my ways for you. So sometimes you have to, for family, you have to bring them up to understand that your way is not their way. The past is not the future and sometimes things are going to change.

9:51 So I love finding groups. I think that's important. Find the people that lift you up and don't just have your barbecues with your neighbors. If your neighbors aren't the kind of people that you're aspiring to. Try to get invited to better parties and be with better people. And that doesn't mean that wealthier people are better. It is what you're aspiring to. And I have found that most people who have been very successful, when I tell them an idea, they don't laugh at it.

10:22 It's people that have failed or not even tried that when I tell them an idea, here's what I want to do. They don't know how to handle it. And so they are crabs in a bucket. But people who have tried things and been successful say, yeah, try that. Yeah. See what happens. So right. Right. And have it be sincere encouragement too. I mean, if they see a sharp edge, they're going to tell you about it too. The next question is what thoughts or beliefs do you currently allow to dominate your mind

10:52 and how are they influencing your actions, emotions, and behaviors? Oh man, this is a heavy, heavy question. Yeah. And one of my first reactions and over time I prepare to be a prepared response, but first I do react to it is when in doubt, ask for the evidence. Where is the evidence to prove this doubt or this worry to have any credibility or possibility? And then besides this possibility of this particular outcome, what else could happen?

11:22 So be open to other options and find ways to have more positive outcomes when you're worrying about something. Think about options. When you have options, then the desperation kind of decreases. And then you can pick the best possible outcome based on the scenario of all of the different options that you have. And then lastly, my faith, I always deal with adversity, with the question of, dear Lord, what am I to learn from this?

11:51 And when I really contemplate on that, I end up becoming a better person when I look at those situations. Yeah, I think that's important to find out what you can learn from the challenges that we face. And I think the other thing is you have to understand that because I've failed in the past, does not mean I'm going to fail in the future. Because this process didn't work the first time I tried it, doesn't mean that this isn't a good process.

12:15 And that's why looking back at something that failed and trying to figure out what happened is a very important first step to take. It doesn't mean the process didn't work. It may mean that you didn't work the process. And you and I have found that over and over again, as we've debriefed with clients in our follow-up meetings, that they tried something and didn't work. If we didn't debrief with them, they'd jettison it and then that would be gone.

12:42 Right. So it's really important to go back and look at those things. So I think those are the steps that I take. Is try to debrief what went on and look at it logically, but don't just let it build on your doubts. And lately, I've been thinking about people's reactions to a conversation, an appointment.

13:01 And if they're reacting irrationally, I wonder if there's something else going on in their life. And I give them a lot of forgiveness when they act irrationally because I don't know what priorities they have in their life. No, no. You can assume that most people will act irrationally and that they have something going on in their

13:26 lives. That's true. Right. We all have something going on in our lives and we're trying to push that away so we can get business done and it keeps invading us. So be careful that I think that's a good warning that you've laid out there. I'll close out this chapter, chapter five with consider starting a gratitude journal. And this is getting up every day and looking for something that you're grateful for. Be anticipatory that something wonderful is going to happen in your day.

13:54 And if you don't recognize it because you're not conscious of it, you're obviously going to miss it. And at the end of the day, write down an experience that you had with a person, with an event that you attended, some insight that you learned, a goal that you accomplished, or adjusting your habits. What are you going to stop doing first? And then what are you going to start doing it to replace that? And when you write that in a gratitude journal, it's amazing the path and the growth that you can see when you look back at it a month or a quarter or a year later.

14:24 I'm not a very good journaler, but for about a month, I did this for my wife, leading up to an anniversary. And I wrote down every day something that she did for me. Wonderful. And I think that did a lot to strengthen my value of her because we do take other people for granted. And so if you're married or you're living with someone and things are kind of rough, I would ask you to do what Scott's mentioning, but do it about your significant other. And write down what something they did for you every day. And you will be shocked at how many things they're doing for you that you don't want to do yourself.

15:08 It may be just grabbing that basket of clothes and folding it. And you, you know, it's done. It's just done. Your underwear is magically back in the drawer.

15:20 Anyway, it's a great idea to write that gratitude journal and think about what's going on in your life. Yeah, yeah. Every day that you got to look for them though, you got to look for them otherwise you never see them. We're taking it for granted. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Next week, no book club. We're going to have a guest. We'll talk a little bit about that later. All right. Our topic today is what buyers really want. And sometimes we get involved in all clever pitches and showing what we have in our wonderful product line. And sometimes we really forget that we've got a person on the other side of the table with us. And I think this is easier

16:02 for business to consumer. It's easy to see a family come in or a husband and wife or a couple come in and, you know, to use your example from the last show, you're trying to sell them a a treadmill or something. And they're people because they're right there. But sometimes I think in business to business, we start thinking I'm selling to the corporation. And this person is just a cog in the wheel of the corporate. And how do I get to these people? And how do I get to this? And how can I get to their boss? And so we're kind of doing all this strategy stuff. And yet you and I have found that our best clients we've become friends with. We've developed a relationship. We

16:45 have some clients that we just, some people that aren't even clients, and we just love to get together with them and talk about sales and talk about what's going on in their lives. And it's, they're really human to us. And so I think that's really important. So let's talk about some ways that people want to buy. This isn't the buyer's journey. This is more the emotional pieces of it. Anything before I get into these guiding thing that you're thinking about in this topic? No, I think you're right on kind of the description of B2C business to consumer. That's a lot more personal. I think the saying that I really kind of struggle with is people like to do business with people that they

17:25 like. I'd like to add on to that that they respect and or they want to be like. So you are being a person that others want to be similar to. And when we take respect out of that, then we end up kind of suffering maybe from a high need for approval. But I really like the personal approach, but doing it in an intellectual justifying way. And I'm looking forward to this topic. And I think sometimes when we're in that business to business situation, they're a little standoffish. They're kind of reacting the same way, what's this person trying to get from me? So you have to break down some of those barriers. And I think that what we'll talk about here will break down some of those barriers to

18:06 build that likeableness, but also trust and respect what you and I've talked about quite often. Yeah. So number one buyers want to feel understood, not pressured. And so these people want to talk, they want to tell you about what those needs are. So don't get into pitch mode where you're starting to throw spaghetti against the wall. Stop me when you see something that I like, right? You can't just start talking about what benefits are if you don't know what matters to them. And so

18:40 don't rush it. If you try to rush the decision, you know, what's close close early close often. I don't like close early close often, because what it says to the buyer is, all they want is to finish this thing and get me out of here. And so you have to do some things that are very important. Now we have talked over and over again, you have to ask questions. You'll have to develop a series of questions that are going to lead the need you to find out what the buyer needs, whether they really want to tell you about it or not. And then when you ask questions, listen, again, don't focus on the next question is the I always laugh at myself because when I'm

19:26 making phone calls, I'm dialing a number and then I'm looking at the next name on my list and I forget who I'm calling exactly. So don't get ahead of yourself when you've asked a question. Listen, that's why I think taking notes is so important. It forces you to focus on what they're saying and making good notes. And then you want to validate their concerns. So as you find out something that's important, don't just move on to the next question. Dig in, drive in, ask the why question, ask the motivating questions. So why is that important? Why is that such a challenge for you? What happens if you don't fix that? And then the third piece is to avoid assumptions.

20:06 Don't assume you know, don't assume you can solve it. You've talked about this, Scott. We solve it too early. And then we lose the value of it. So instead of trying to assume you know everything, keep asking more questions. You want to fully understand what the buyer is trying to deal with. Truly, I would like to propose that people replace assumptions with being anticipatory and anticipate what the prospect is going to need. If you're presenting eight benefits and they only see value in five of them, there's three of them that they may not see any value at the time. Now, if you position it in a way, they may find value on it in the future. They just don't know how it's

20:49 applied or what it means or the impact to them at that time because they don't have a pain that they're trying to solve with that benefit that you're offering that they're not interested in. But if you don't, if you can't connect it, don't talk about it. Exactly. Because you're going to confuse them and we've talked about this. A confused buyer does what? Never buys. They hesitate and they don't buy. So okay, number two, buyers want to reduce risk, not just gain value. Scott, I should let you talk about this one the most because you love to talk about what is the problem with not buying? What is the cost of not doing something? So talk about that a little bit. Yeah, what is the cost of inaction? If you don't do anything today,

21:31 how much is it going to cost you in the future? And I'm pretty sure that if it's a real scenario, the expense and the cost is going to be much greater than solving it today. And when you think about value, how do you define value? And I like use a formula is cost consequences and risk minus the price equals value. If the cost consequences and risk are greater than the price that somebody pays, you're delivering value. If the price is higher, it's the formula that just doesn't work. Value is not communicated. Okay, so some ways to help this value get communicated. First of all, you have to build that trust early. Scott talked about trust in the book

22:10 section, but it's also important to develop trust in the way that you deal with your customer. And I think asking good questions and being curious and listening is a great way to build trust. But also, do you have some stories, some proof cases that when they come to a problem, you can say, well, here's how we overcame this for somebody else. And that's a way that says you're experienced and you can build some trust. I think you also can try to offer some guarantees, right? If risk is their problem, what happens if this doesn't work? Well, we can guarantee, can we offer some guarantees, some, some flexible terms, something that's helps them overcome the barrier of risk.

22:54 So the second one is buyers want to reduce risk, not just gain value. Do you have another point on that, Scott? Yeah, I think you got a great setup for, you know, people are making decisions more on a fear of loss than a desire for gain, in some cases. And I think in a negotiation class that I teach, I go, people are two and a half times more motivated to do something to avoid pain than they are to alleviate it once it happens. And once we can reduce that risk of something bad happening to them, then it ends up having more value if you position it well. Yeah. And I think that that's where trust is really important, because you have to take them into a bad scenario. What

23:38 happens if you don't fix this? What happens if you don't deal with this now? And so you have to take them to the bad place a little bit. Unfortunately, yeah. So because if they're hesitating to do something, we look at and we say that hesitation isn't helping you. That pause that delay is not making it better. Right. Right. And what is it really costing you in the long run? And that cost may be greater than making the decision that you're making right now, maybe a better option.

24:11 That's right. That's right. All right. Number three, buyers want an emotional connection, not just logic. And I think that ties into what I said earlier that some of our best clients, we've developed a deeper relationship, a human relationship with them. And I think in the B2B space, you have to build that over time. In B2C, you can build that fairly quickly by being nice and smiling and dressing well, and having a good appearance and being eager to help them and talk to them. Those things can all build that. But in the B2B space, I think, as I said, they're a little bit more standoffish. So what they're looking for, is this somebody that I can trust,

24:51 is this somebody that I can build a relationship with? Yeah. And another point, I think, in prospects making decisions is if they screw up, if the prospect makes a bad decision, the salesperson should be able to give them enough confidence that they will work together to create a better outcome, create a better solution, and fix the error that the prospect made, maybe because they didn't have enough information, or maybe they were confused during the buying process. Well, so often a buyer's in the back of their mind, but this doesn't go well. I could be really hurt in my career.

25:23 Oh, the embarrassment. I mean, just think about B2B. It's the image that you have within the company, and the reputation that you want to build. And if you make a bad decision, you become embarrassed, and it becomes a bigger deal than just making a bad decision. The embarrassment. So how do we build this relationship? Try to meet in person. This is something that you and I have found if we're selling ourselves as much as we're selling the results of our training.

25:51 And so often now salespeople seem to want to just meet on the web and not even turn their cameras on. So if you're not out there, if you don't get to Omaha and meet with people, and I told the story a little bit ago about one of our friends who has biggest piece of business happened right after COVID when they actually went to the customer and met with them in person. He brought the team along and they said, you're the only one that bothered to come and meet with us.

26:20 Yeah. And he got his biggest piece of business. So quit thinking that everybody wants to work online. The relationship and the trust is built because I know who you are. I've shaken your hand. We just did a whole workshop on manners and hand shaking and looking people in the eye. And how do we meet people? So we can't get that online. And we certainly can't get that with your cameras off. True line. Right. So your stories help build that. You are able to have some energy in the room when you meet with them. I think that's so important. And then you need to be willing to show some passion. This is something, if you're selling something and you can't get

27:05 excited about it, what it's going to do for them, how are they ever going to get excited about it? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And if you don't buy what you're selling, people aren't going to buy it either. So you got to definitely buy what you sell. Yep. All right. Number four, buyers want clarity, not complexity. And Scott kind of stole my thunder on this one a little bit when he started talking about the different benefits. But if you have eight benefits to something and in your conversation, you've recognized that the customer has four of them that are important to him or her, then those are the four you talk about. Because if you talk about things that they don't want

27:43 or don't value and you can't find that value connection that Scott talked about, every time you talk about them, they're shrugging or shaking their heads. This isn't what's important to me. And the two questions that come to mind is, is this too complex and bigger than I need? And is this more expensive than I need? Because it has four features that I don't really need. We can't take those features out of what we do. But if we don't focus on it, we just go to the yes, yes, yes, the customers are less confused. Right. And hopefully they'll justify the price that they're paying on the features they're getting and feeling like it's worth it. That price is

28:19 perfect because I get what I want in these features. I don't care about the other four features, I won't use them and I don't feel like I'm paying for them. I'm getting enough price return on what I am buying, getting that value out of it right away. So a couple of things that do simplify your message. And that's what we just talked about. Don't talk about everything, talk about the important things. Be willing to summarize. Here's what that may mean to you.

28:41 Right. The old, the old nail down. Don't assume they understand the value of that benefit. Talk about the benefit and then talk about here's how I see that being valuable to you. And then also show them what the next steps are going to be. So that clarity is, I want to not just see buying it. I want to see how this ends. And so be willing to go to the end and provide them with that clarity, not complexity. Wow. Well, very true. Very true. All right. Number five, buyers want to feel in control and not manipulated. So Scott, what are some of the ways that you can help a buyer stay in control rather than feeling like you're driving everything? I mean, I really love the theme of

29:25 asking questions. And that is really thinking about as a salesperson, what information do you want to learn, including their motivations? And then think about what questions that you're going to ask to get that information. And then the information that you get from the prospect, you then create value from what they're sharing with you. And then later you claim it when it comes to the presentation part. So as long as you're asking questions and you're putting them in a position where they're learning more about the decision that they're benefiting from, I think the more cooperative they're going to be and they're going to feel more guided than they are going to be

29:58 felt that they're losing control. Absolutely. So the questions allow you to use a consultative approach. And Scott and I are definitely consultative sellers. We're not pitchmen. We're going to go in there and we're going to find out what the problem is before we try to solve it. I like to offer choices. We talk about the A to B to C. What is number one, number two, number three, what value do you want? Good, better, best, however you want to say it. And then let them choose what value package that they want. So having a couple of choices for them allows them to feel in control. And then also, you know, if they tell you, no, you have to look for another option. And

30:42 and sometimes it's just not going to work out. And you save it for another day. So if the match isn't good, don't try to shove it together and make it work. When you know the results aren't going to be good for the customer. You know, you've got the experience in this process. And Scott and I have walked away from a couple of deals because the way the expectations of the buyer just weren't matching what where we were going to take them. Right. Right. All right. So the final thought, we're selling to other human beings, not machines, not robots, don't over process is important to get where you and the buyer want to go. But the process isn't the only thing. So a couple questions to

31:26 think about, am I focused on what the buyer wants? Or am I focused on me? That's a challenge. Do I understand what motivates them? Not just what they're saying. If I if I ask questions to take them deeper into motivations. And here's one I really like, am I making it easy to do business with me? Am I making it easy for them to say yes? Or am I over complexitizing this whole complexitizing? Is that a word? I think it counts. I just made it up. If it's not. If I made it easy for them to buy for them to say yes. So I think those are important things to think about when we're going to work and we are working people to people. Very great subject Bill. And there's a lot in there that I

32:10 have not read in Nini's sales books. And I think that this is applicable content that our listeners can apply today. All right. Well, thank you Scott. Let's go on to our golden nugget. Our golden nugget today is every action you take is a vote for the type of person you wish to become. And that's by James Clear, our author of Atomic Habits. And it really emphasizes that behavior reflects identity and values. And that's what I really love about that quote. We might think about I'm reading Atomic Habits right now. Another book club I'm in. And I might stick that in. We haven't done that one yet.

32:46 Yeah, that'd be a great book. James Clear on. That'd be great. We've been getting authors. We've been getting our authors on. Our next one is going to be Frank Cespatas. So Scott's going to talk about that in a little bit. But all right, let's close it up for the day. All the information is at winning at selling.com. And that's all the show notes everything there. This is episode 683. Next week, we're going to have a guest, the amazing Hondo. And he is a magician and his topic is

33:18 magic with a message. So no book club next week. But we will be covering chapter six. When we come back, we've got two shows remaining on the book. And then our next book is titled aligning strategy and sales by Frank Cespatas of Harvard Business. And we had him on the show back in April of 2021. I think it's episode 455. Wow. That was early in our process. It was. And he had just released a book about sales management. And we interviewed him about that. But we didn't dig deep into the topic because it, you know, there's a small portion of our audience that sales managers. And we'll be interviewing him on episode 687, which will be released on September 29. So stay tuned for that.

34:06 So please subscribe and share this podcast with your colleagues and on your social media network. We are grateful for a five star review and posting a favorable comment. If not, then please contact us directly. Go out and get better one skill at a time. Joyful selling.