Are You Coachable?

0:04 Thank you for joining us at the Winning and Selling Podcast on Professor Scott Plum of the Minnesota Sales Institute and with me is Bill Hellkamp of Rich Development Systems and together we launched Franchise Sales Pro with a commitment to work with franchise owners and franchisees to drive sales and boost revenue. In our last episode we closed with a quote from Bob Nardelli, the former CEO of Home Depot. He said, I absolutely believe that people, unless coached, never reach their maximum capabilities.

0:34 If this is true, we should be looking for coaching opportunities every day with the hope of finding someone who will work with us on a long-term basis. But if we don't listen and grow, we might find our coach has better things to do. So take a lap as Scott and I turn our attention to Are You Coachable and other flagmatic philosophies on episode 685 of the Winning and Selling Podcast. We always create an educational moment in the intro.

1:07 What is full-agories? What is that word Bill? Ligmatic. I was going to give it to you because I know how you like to pronounce it. Pronunciate. I mean that's a personality style. It's calm. The accountant. Ah, ah. Good. It works. It's a calm peacemaker. Right. Unlike me. The book we're doing is The Power of Purpose. We're doing Chapter 6. The book is by Mitch Larson. So a little bit more of a softer topic. One of the questions that they talked about is, do you carve out time to sit quietly with your thoughts?

1:44 And if so, do you journal if not make a plan to create a quiet space during the day and do that? And I like this question because it really kind of concentrates more on the human being side of who we are versus the human doing side. And I think- I hate this question because it focused on the human being side rather than the human dealing side. So you're more than doing than the being. And I'm like, well, let's take some time to contemplate where we are.

2:11 Do the map of the mall on my life, my career, everything right now and figure out where do I go from here? So do you spend time sitting quietly during the day, Bill? Do you have a time where you do that? No. Well, you want to walk with your dog so you kind of separate, you punch out. That's true. I mean, you're not answering the phone and sending emails during that time. And I'm sure you think- I think one of my biggest times for thinking is when I sit down and do my daily to-do list.

2:37 Oh. Which causes me to think about each thing that I have to do. I'm not just writing as fast as I can. And I'm trying to organize my thoughts and my day. And you and I meet once a week to talk about what our week looks like and working together and confirm that. I think that's a similar- And so for me, that combines doing with thinking. I know I have to think a lot when I write. I try to be creative when I write. So kind of what Mitch was talking about.

3:05 We didn't talk about really what Mitch talked about in the book, but he talked about his creative process and how he gets a prompt of some kind, maybe from somebody and then starts writing toward that prompt for his songs or for an idea for his book. Things like that. And I think we do the same thing, right? We get an idea for what we want to do for the podcast. Then you sit down and start thinking through, what do I know about this question or this issue today?

3:29 It's am I coachable? But how do I think about this? And so I think that's important is to can you think while you work? And that's probably how I think. I think through problems as they present themselves, I'm not really good at future visioning and saying, okay, what's going to happen in six months? So that that may be seen as a weakness of mine. Maybe that's something you're better at and why we partner. I don't know that I'm better at it or it may be different, but I enjoy sitting in the hot tub.

4:03 For me, that is a relaxing time. And when my stress level goes up, my creativity goes up, stress level goes down and my creativity goes up. That's what I meant to say. And also watching certain drama shows, you know, like I love Yellowstone or landmen or sopranos or suits and watching that human dynamics together, creating conflict. I get somewhat inspired by that and look at how those situations can be handled a little bit differently.

4:34 And I write stuff down in a journal. So yes, I do journal and when I pick a topic and Bill and I take turns picking topics is I'll be three episodes ahead of a topic and I'll write a topic down that I'm going to do. And then I think about that within the next two weeks and I take notes as to what I want to cover during that. So I do journal and write stuff down and it's amazing when you've got a bourbon and a cigar and you're just kind of relaxing and thinking about the ideas that you come up with.

5:03 Well, I'm glad to say I don't need a bourbon and a cigar to think. I still do. But in was interesting, I'm listening to a John Maxwell talk about, I think five questions to ask yourself about your business. And he talks about a bias for action versus a bias for thinking. And I know I have this bias for action. I like to be in action. But he says, I recommend a bias for thinking. And so to take that time to sit down and think is very valuable.

5:36 He takes the whole week between Christmas and New Year's. Revisit his year. What did I get done? What didn't I get done? And I think those things are necessary in order to get more accomplished than if you just let it kind of randomly happen to you. And the challenge with the bias for action is then I tend to be in a reactive mode. Something happens. I get a call from a client, whatever the possible client, a prospect.

6:02 And I start taking and playing that out. But to create that and to have a plan to create those, I think, is that bias for thinking that says I need to think this through. Now, I think the challenge with that can also be that we have too many plans happening at the same time. So you have to weed out those plans that don't really fit your process. It was a great idea for someone else, but it's not necessarily something that we should really be doing.

6:33 So I think you need to look at some of those things too. I totally agree with that position. And we need to consider what are we going to stop doing? Yes. When we start growing, think about what are you going to stop doing? And I think about some hobbies that I used to partake in and I don't participate in as much anymore. And I think about, you know, if there's something related to that particular hobby or that activity and you're not going to do it anymore, sell the stuff, get rid of it or give it away and decide, I've decided I am not going to do that anymore.

7:03 Clear the decks. Give it up. And then, you know, guess what's going to happen is when you stop doing something, your time is going to be backfilled by something either by default or by design. It's something that you are going to work on. I'm in my 60th year and I've been thinking about putting together another book and I thought, boy, now is a great time for me to be able to think about writing blogs every single day, create that inspirational friction and then take the accumulation of all of my writings, all my journal entries and then create a book that is interesting to people on my life so far.

7:38 And what I've learned and I wrote it down before I forget it too. Yeah. Well, it's interesting you say, what do we get rid of? The first question that John asks in these five questions is, what doesn't fit? Mm hmm. What is it that we're doing in our business that doesn't quite match where our talents are or where we should be putting our time or it's not, it just doesn't match for some reason. I thought that was a good question.

8:03 I don't have an answer to that and maybe there isn't one. Right. But it's worth looking at and saying, is there something I should get rid of so I can focus on stuff that I'm better at. You can't start doing something unless you stop doing something. There's just so much time in the day. You're only working with a very limited capacity of time. Last night I decided to stop sleeping. Okay, well, that's not a good thing though.

8:29 I did not have a problem. The next question that he talks about in the chapter is, in what ways are you allowed your creative self to play? Are you currently setting aside creative time or do you make a plan to do so? I scheduled my relaxation at the end of the day and time to reflect on everything that I got. And things that I really want to contemplate that evening and I believe the subconscious mind is very powerful.

8:55 So that's why I like to think about topics two to three weeks out because I start thinking and playing with the topic and figuring out what position I want to take and then writing it down on the journal that I have. And then it just accumulates, it just keeps getting refined. I think by writing it down it makes it more solid, doesn't it? It retains it. It does. It does. It does. The next morning when I get up, I look at my journal and go, this is fascinating stuff.

9:18 A lot of my LinkedIn blogs, posts, newsletters come from that inspirational friction during the subconscious mind and I wake up the next morning and I've got a different perspective on a topic and I write it out. And it's just, for me, it's very rewarding because now I've captured something that makes it easier for me to remember. Yeah. I need to allow myself to shut off the noise. You know, so you get inspiration from TV shows.

9:43 I just get distraction from having things on. So, you know, I've got to cut off the noise and distractions so I can listen better to what's going on inside my head. You know, even good audios and stuff. I think they can interfere with the creative process. And then to the idea of just sitting and thinking, my problem is I just fall asleep. Yeah. I really do. I mean, I can fall asleep anywhere. And if I just sit quietly, you know, my head is going to drop and, you know, I'm going to talk to God in a whole different way.

10:16 Right. So, I kind of need to be at this place where work can get done. But I worry sometimes that my area around my office has become a bad area to work because I have too much noise in it. Well, for me, I've got enough noise and anxiety during the day and on guard mindset that by the time the day is over with, and you start punching out at four o'clock, five o'clock, I exhale at that point. And it just makes it a lot easier for me to be reflective without being tired or exhausted too.

10:49 All right. Different ways of looking at it. But there is a reason why they call life a rat race and a doggy dog. And if you got it, if you don't take time to really reflect and think about where you are in life and what you want to accomplish and assess the path and the, and the trajectory and the angle of attack, then, you know, you're, you're kind of wandering through the forest in a way. So it really takes that time to think and reflect and write it down.

11:13 You'd be amazed how joyful it is when you look at a journal that you've fulfilled a couple years ago. It's just very rewarding. That's an important point. Thanks, Scott. Next week, our book, The Power Purpose, we're going to be finishing it up with chapters seven and eight. So stay tuned for that. Our second topic today is are you coachable? So we've had a quote from Bob Nardelli, former head of, of Home Depot. He says it's important to be coachable.

11:42 And what does that mean? Right? What does it mean to be coachable? And so we're going to investigate that. But, but if you look at, I always like to look at professionals and obviously somebody like a tiger would, I don't want to follow a bunch of golf anymore, but I did for a while and Tiger Woods was kind of that person that I followed. And he had a coach, the best player in the world had somebody who was a coach. And I think for a while he had a coach that screwed up his swing.

12:09 Oh, wow. And he played worse because of his coach. So that's something to be careful of too. But, but I think for the most part, every one of those golfers has somebody that's watching what they're doing on the sidelines. They're videotaping. Hondo, he talked about practicing. And when he first started learning, he was coached. I bet when he went to that show the other day, and he spent a few thousand dollars, he talked about getting new magic tricks.

12:38 He didn't just buy the trick. He watched it be done, and he had them reveal it to him how to do it. So he didn't have to start with just reading about it. So he was coached there. Showing people how to do something is very important to coaching. What are some of your thoughts on coaching, Scott? I totally agree with that. And just, you know, keeping with the example of Hondo, there's a lot of techniques that salespeople are exposed to or learn or their sales managers tell them, try this or do this or they go through training and they get all of these techniques.

13:09 Do those techniques match the style of the salesperson? So the tricks that Hondo picked matched his style and his message, and it worked for him. But there's a lot of techniques for salespeople that don't fit their style. So disregard that. Find a way to represent your style in the technique, and it's going to be more easier to adapt, and you're going to adopt it. And it's going to make it easier for you to be coachable because you're finding something that's useful and has meaning and value.

13:39 If it has no meaning and value, it's not something you're willing to pay for or invest your time in, either. Well, I think too often we'll be here for salespeople when we're coaching or training them. Oh, I used to do that. Right. Very common. I used to do that. And then you say, well, why did you stop? I don't know. Maybe I got lazy. Maybe I got too many freebies. You know, I used to prospect. Why don't you prospect anyway?

14:03 I don't see. While I had so much business coming in, I didn't need to, and I fell out of the habit. Right. So, but sometimes a coach can ask you that question, which causes you to think and reflect on why you aren't doing something anymore. So let's talk about some of these ideas. Why is coaching important? And how can I be coach? How can I be better? How do I know if I'm coachable? So let's talk about why coachability.

14:31 This coachability, the ability to be coached, why does it matter? And I think number one is that you can't grow without feedback. Right. And we tend to lie to ourselves, whereas we won't lie as much to other people. So a coach can bring out the truth through watching what we're doing and feedback. That mentorship, that idea that says, I can see where you're blind to your problem here. I know when you wrote your book, you had an editor.

15:01 Mm-hmm. Mitch in his book, he talked about the editor. As a matter of fact, you wrote a little portion of a little blurb in this chapter. And so there's people, you even said that this morning, there's people that are better at doing some things than I am. Yes. And there's some times where I need that help. So that's number one is that growth requires feedback. Number two, adaptability and a changing world. Sometimes we're carrying over our ideas year to year that are now outdated.

15:31 Mm-hmm. And those ideas just don't work so, so like calling people on the phone to prospect has changed. If you don't have a cell number, you're not going to get anything but a message. I don't know anybody that answers an office phone anymore, do you, Scott? It's rare, but it does occur. It does occur. But, you know, so we're trying to find different ways to get ahold of people. But you got to adapt and maybe talk to somebody.

15:56 And I know one of the things that we've done with the podcast is that we've said that it keeps us sharp because each week we have to find this topic. Think about it and write about it. And then finally, number three, better relationships. I think that being coached causes us to forget that we are not the only thing in the world. Somebody else is bringing new ideas to us and we have to be open to those. And that openness can cause us to have better relationships.

16:25 Sometimes we're just too stuck on ourselves and our own ability to really think. Yeah, I think about a couple of things that you bring up. One of the chapters in my book, Taking Off Into the Wind, is No Change, No Change. And there are a lot of people that graduated from college and they thought that they learned everything back some 45 years ago. I am never going to read another book. Yeah, they say that. I am never going to read another book in my life.

16:54 It's like, okay, well, I hope that you have Audible or you're listening to something or you read blogs or newspapers, whatever it is. But you need to have information because the world is constantly changing the knowledge base doubles, I think, every five years. And with AI and the impact of AI these days, I think that that even compounds that. And another thing that made me think about the difference between being arrogant and being ignorant.

17:20 And I think when you're not seeking feedback and you're not adapting to a changing world, you kind of become, in some cases, some people become arrogant. And what I mean, arrogant means, you know, what you say doesn't matter. And being ignorant is, I know everything I need to know. And when you meet these people, it's like, where do you go from there? You got to be able to figure out how can you work with them when there's no change and there's no change and we're arrogant and or.

17:46 So how does a coach help that arrogant person then? Well, they need to find out a personal motivation as to why they would want to change. Why would you want to change? Why would you want to do it now? Why have you waited until now? And now you're getting that personal motivation for them. And it could be as simple as I want a new boat. Okay, I'll take that. So that's the motivator. Yeah, let's work with that. Yep. All right, so that's a great segue, Scott.

18:13 So the first, the first trait is humility. You talked about arrogance. The opposite is humility. I can't listen if I know everything. I don't need to listen. So humility says somebody else knows more than I do and I'm going to be open to listening to them. Yeah, great position. I think a number one activity in rapport building is active listening. So you don't just hear feedback, but you make an effort to really understand it and fully respond.

18:40 So you listen appropriately and you respond accordingly. And when you're doing that, you're creating a great conversation based on what the other person finds most important. And as you're listening, what are you listening for? You're listening for apps, opportunities to change. You need to have a willingness to change what you're doing now. And sometimes it's uncomfortable. You know, we use the golf analogy. If I'm going to ever hit a golf ball right, I'm going to have to change my grip and swing.

19:09 And that's going to be uncomfortable because my crappy swing feels comfortable. Right. It is familiar. Yeah, it's familiar. So be willing to change and you're going to have to be uncomfortable in that change. Mm hmm. Yeah. It's for a period of time, but eventually you do get used to it. I remember one of the comments when we had Jason Talion to show his boss has a spirit of curiosity. So number four would be curiosity.

19:35 You ask questions and you seek a different perspective and you view challenges as opportunities and not problems. Problems are negative. Challenges can be a situation to apply what you already know or a situation to learn something that you don't know, but is applicable in the future or transferable, which is a great opportunity that you didn't have when you got up that morning. You know, here's an opportunity to learn something.

20:01 It's not scheduled, but you're going to have to do it. All right. And the fifth trait is just a little bit of resilience. You know, one of the hardest things for us to do is to take a little bit of criticism that looks like it's personal. It's not personal, especially if you have a good coach. Somebody is saying to you, I've noticed something that you could do better. Why don't you try this adaptive process? Try this new idea.

20:26 See if it works for you. And as you said at the beginning, how am I going to make this change in humility so that I don't put my barriers up? And if we're too thin-skinned, don't ask for a coach because you won't be able to take what they say. So those are five traits, humility, active listening, willingness to change, curiosity, and a little bit of resilience. So what do you think it is, Scott, that stops us from being coached?

20:54 Well, I would probably think about our own mindset, our own belief system. And I'm guessing that ego really holds us back from being vulnerable because we can't learn unless we're vulnerable. Yeah. That pride, right? So we've heard about humility and ego and pride and arrogance. Boy, those are all just attitude traits that we have to control ourselves, right? A fear of criticism, I think, is a barrier, which we just talked about the opposite being resilient, knowing that it's okay.

21:27 They're not trying to damage you, your coach. And that's an important thing in that coaching relationship, isn't it, Scott? I need to trust that coach that they're not trying to damage me. They're not trying to hurt me. They're trying to help me. So you can't be fearful of that criticism. Right. I heard a great coach say, I can't remember where I heard it, but they said a good coach is one that can kick you in the ass and patch you on the back in the same time.

21:49 Wow. I think that's good. Insecurity is another barrier to being coachable, being threatened by that feeling that I'm weak or I'm unable to. You know, some people have put up this mask of I'm perfect. And if I put up this mask of I'm perfect, then anything that comes that is contrary to that mask, I'm going to take in a defensive posture. So you have to be careful of that. Right. Yeah. Very true. The last one is where we began the fixed mindset.

22:24 So believing that your abilities are static and unchangeable. Rather than seeing them as skills that can be developed, really thinking and believing and having a mindset of I don't know what I don't know. And if you have that curiosity and you have that humility and you're vulnerable to learn, it makes it a lot easier for you to learn something that's going to give you a better result that is going to transfer into a better life.

22:50 But you have to be able to manage your ego and pride in order to be open to other options. I think the other challenge with that fixed mindset is it says, I know everything I need to know I'm the smartest person in the room and anything that comes looks like an attack on that. I can't I can't have my my superiority attack. That's kind of like that mask we talked about. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So what can we do to become more coachable?

23:19 Number one, practice self awareness. You need to be able to open up to yourself and and criticize yourself a little bit more and then be open to talking to your coach about what are those things I'm seeing in myself is failing. If you come up with it and you talk to your coach about it's a little bit easier to take. But if you're going to insist on that closed mindset that Scott talked about, then you're never going to look at yourself critically and never look for those opportunities to get better.

23:48 So don't try to believe your own press clippings or believe your last big sale. There's always a better way if you look for it. Yeah. Very true. So another one to consider is ask for feedback regularly. I think this is a way where sometimes if we do it too frequently, we come across as being insecure. But if we find a way to do it that we're comfortable with, and I'll do this when I do a program about 15 minutes into the kickoff, I'll stop and I'll go, how am I doing so far?

24:16 And I'll look at the audience and I mean, there's not a lot of response. I think they're more engaged in what I'm saying, but they're interested in it and they want me to keep going. They will keep going. Okay. So I keep going. So when you seek that feedback regularly, it's working on that collaboration proactively too. I think it's being honest with that coach. Right. That's how you can get that feedback. You know, if you can drive your coach crazy enough that they quit giving you honest feedback.

24:43 True. They can give up on you, right? Yeah. Yeah. But you need to have a relationship with a coach or a mentor that recognize the dynamics is I turn to a person as a mentor, which means I want them to be proactively criticizing my behaviors and changing my mindsets when they see a behavior that's not healthier in the direction that I want to go. Right. Number three is listen without interrupting. Yes. I think the challenge we face a lot is that desire to justify.

25:11 Mm-hmm. Right. So your coach might say, well, I noticed you weren't doing well, you know, I almost never do it that way. It reminds me real quick of a situation Scott and I were in. We were teaching a course and to a group of people who did home remodeling. And when we did the practice session, the guy handed me the quote and he said, and if you do that right away, I'll give you 5% off. If you make the decision right.

25:39 And I said, you just cut 5% out of your price without getting anything for it at all. He said, oh, I never do that with a client. I said, you do that all the time with the client because it's a first thing that came out of your mouth. So he started to justify, well, I really don't do that in real life. Then why would you do it now in this practice? Right. Yeah. I'm not nervous about interrupting. Yeah. Yeah. Another one is apply what you learn.

26:05 So feedback is wasted if you never act upon it. So learn something and look for an opportunity to apply it. So pick one or two areas that you want to improve within a day, figure out a better way of doing it, apply it when you have an opportunity, evaluating debrief the outcome of it, and then figure out if it needs to improve or not, or if it's good enough to try again. You know, you could say go out and get better one skill at a time.

26:28 Exactly. That's a good. I've heard that saying before. Where have I heard that? Somebody really smart. Is it over? Are we done? Well, you know what Scott and I have done too is every chance we get with our training is that we do five or six coaching sessions afterwards, where we ask them to apply specific parts of the training. And it's phenomenal what happens on that. Yeah. It is. And they know that upfront. We're going to get together for the next two months talking about what we talked about today.

27:00 Oh man. So it's not over with. No, it's not over with. Yeah. You know, and also those people that coach you are human. Yeah. Express gratitude toward them. Let them know that it's okay that you took the criticism or the correction in the right way. Not everybody is a paid coach. Not everybody is a professional coach. So you might have your boss. You might have a coworker that's coaching experience coworker. So make sure that they know that even though maybe you got upset, it's okay.

27:30 I've done it. You know, I know that I'm difficult to change. So I tend to react to change in a negative way until I can process it. So, you know, when that happens and you don't take it, well, express gratitude. Let your coach know that it's okay. All right. So what do we get if we're coachable? We get a chance to grow. We get a chance to get better. We're just not going to get better on our own. We need that outside influence, whether it's books, podcasts or a personal coach.

28:06 Look for those opportunities to change. Scott, your final thoughts. Yeah. I think the person that created the problem in most cases is not the one that can fix it. I think that there are a lot of answers outside of our own head. If we can get out of our head, but I think it starts with picking good people in your life that you can start a simple conversation, build a relationship with. And then over time, when you find a gift that they have that they're willing to share and you're going to appreciate it, then that ends up developing a deeper conversation with them.

28:40 And then they have a greater impact and a deeper friendship too, when you find people like that too. All right. So let's finish up with our golden legged. Our golden nugget today is related to our topic. And it is the hallmark of a great student is being coachable. The hallmark of being a great leader is being coachable. And the hallmark of being a great team is being coachable by John Wooden, the legendary UCLA basketball coach.

29:07 Wow. I think coachability might be his theme. Great job at it too. All right. So this information is going to be in our show notes at go to winning at selling.com, winning at selling.com. And this is episode 685. So next week the topic is going to be leave your mother on the bus or mom or yeah, and stay tuned for what that means book club. Like we said earlier, we're going to be finishing up the book, the power of purpose chapter seven and eight.

29:36 And again, the next book is a lining strategy and sales by Frank Cespotis of Harvard Business School. And we had him on the show episode 455 of April 2021. Wow. And we'll be interviewing him on episode 687. And that'll be released on September 29th. Please subscribe and share this podcast with your colleagues and on your social media networks. I'd be grateful if you give us a five star review and post a favorable comment.

30:02 If not favorable, please let us know directly. Go out and get better one skill at a time. Joyful selling.